Neal Stephenson – Announcing Termination Shock | Hacker News Reader

Neal Stephenson – Announcing Termination Shock

nealstephenson.com

56 pointsjustin6668 comments

I dunno what happened with Seveneves but its one of few books I decided not to finish. There are some books you get bored with or forget to finish, but this one made me drop it.

I have stopped reading Seveneves at the end of second act/part.

It has very interesting premises and nice world building. Stephenson throws all the right ingredients into a pot for an amazing story. Mass social pressures, countries at bring of wars but forced to work together, though choices to be made and there are not enough resources to save everyone...

...but the plots and characters are so poorly written that it actively took me out of the experience.

Most of the characters in the book are just 1 dimensional flags - driven by a singular purpose. They make such poor emotional decisions that the survival of the species depends on. And its not a random survivor 1803, its the leadership of the remaining humanity. Its almost comical when we get detail descriptions of the tech, and the space-station inner-workings, but the social fabric of it is paper thin and bland.

But the last nail in the coffin was the end of part two: the decision on the future of humanity decided via blackmail - do it my way or I'll blow us all up - what?!

If there was a handful of us and one person blackmail everyone to do something stupid ('because I want it this way - no debate, no pros and cons), I would agree to their demands and after they let go of the trigger I would bash their head in. The whole ethics goes out of the window when one crazy person can doom whole humanity concentrated in one place...

This could have been a great book, ends up being meh.

4/10 great setting, terrible plot

> Most of the characters in the book are just 1 dimensional flags - driven by a singular purpose. They make such poor emotional decisions that the survival of the species depends on. And its not a random survivor 1803, its the leadership of the remaining humanity. Its almost comical when we get detail descriptions of the tech, and the space-station inner-workings, but the social fabric of it is paper thin and bland.

Wow how similar to the real world we have!

The only novel I’ve read (didn’t finish) by Neal was Anathem and besides being a 1000 page drag it used the literary fiction tool I hate the most taking (English) words and changing a letter or two or creating onomatopoeic twins with different spelling e.g. avout (devout) and sæcular (secular) it just super lazy and disrespectful to the reader if you want to have a society of monks that took a vow of some sort just call them that.

I care about the plot and the setting not the names of things, I really fucking hate authors who try to be original by bastardizing words for no reason. If this was some post apocalyptic society and how the spelling and pronunciation and even the meaning of the words evolved over time is part of the story then sure go a head but when it’s completely detached from the setting it’s just just is lazy writing.

Normally i hate that sort of thing, but i thought it worked perfectly well for that novel and it wouldn't of accomplished its goals if he didnt do that.

For space sci-fi fans, I highly recommend the new book by Andy Weir, Project Hail Mary. Andy Weir is the writer of The Martian.

Similar story line but detailed enginnering skills.

I listened to the audio book last week and it was incredible

I have just started reading Seveneves, really enjoying it so far.

This is my first (proper) science fiction book. I have been told that Foundation series is a must read. Any recommendations will be appreciated!!

If you liked Seveneves you'll probably also enjoy the Three Body Problem trilogy!

Three-Body Trilogy [1] is also a good read, along with their prequel Ball Lightning [2].

[1]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_of_Earth%27s_Past

[2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_Lightning_(novel)

https://dirkjan.ochtman.nl/writing/2018/07/15/science-fictio...

you should really give Dune a try, that's another must

I'd recommend some of Stephenson's earlier works: Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon, Reamde, Anathem are all great. I actually think Seveneves is one of his weakest books.

Agreed. I wasn’t a big fan of seveneves.

Cryptonomicon and Snow Crash are must reads. Anathem is a beast that I just couldn’t get into, though I tried several times.

Anathem was (surprisingly!) my first book by him. I then read Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon, and am now a cryptographer, in no small part due to these books =)

Do you think Seveneves is weaker than Fall? That seems like a really hard sell to me.

Stephenson has done some great things, but dude needs an editor badly. I'm afraid success has scared off anyone who can tell him when to stop.

Fall, had some interesting and vivid passages, but the whole "Dodge wakes up in a simulation with a brain injury" bit, and really the rest of the book from there to the end could have been cut. That would leave us with a much better 350 page novel about the near future instead of yet another Stephenson -- much longer than the original! -- attempt at retelling the Book of Genesis.

I liked Fall actually, but I can imagine pure sci-fi readers being put off by the second part. It’s a 2-for-1 situation which brings together sci-fi and fantasy elements in interesting ways. But you’ll have to enjoy reading both genres or else it will be a slog.

As with all fiction books, my usual advice is to read it for pleasure, and put it aside if you don’t like it or it doesn’t live up to expectations. You don’t have to finish a book just because you started it.

What sort of person do you imagine will find your "usual advice" necessary or helpful?

I haven't read Fall, because one of my buds told me it was even worse than Seveneves :/

Snow Crash is his best book. Imaginative and punchy as fuck.

Cryptonomicon is very good too. Should be a must read for people who want to make another Tor :)

Incomparison, Reamde is slow and boring.

Huh interesting. I actually thought reamde was the most gripping after I got through the first 2 or 3 chapters which were indeed a bit slow. I wasn't able to finish cryptonomicon, that one was the most boring for me

Interesting- cryptonomicon was the book that gripped me abs made me pursue a technical career.

The Diamond Age as the follow-up to Snow Crash is also a great piece of sci-fi.

Cryptonomicon is fun, I re-read that recently. I wouldn't really call it sci-fi, though. More like historical fiction..

Others have recommended Three Body. I’d second that. Amazing trilogy.

Rendezvous With Rama is one of my favorites.

I’d also recommend Children of Time and Children of Ruin by adrian tchaikovsky. It was one of those random ones I picked up with low expectations, and it turned out to be amazing. It’s well regarded now, but this was when it first came out.

Dune is one I recommend reading even if you’re aware of the story or the movie. It’s an amazingly creative work that lays the foundation of many modern science fiction concepts.

I’d also highly recommend Fire Upon the Deep.

Last ones I’ll recommend are the space odyssey books. I’m a huge fan of long timelines (if you couldn’t already tell) and this series spans 1000 years.

I will second these recommendations and add Armor by John Steakley.

It's a sci-fi book that made sense of PTSD for me.

> Last ones I’ll recommend are the space odyssey books.

Which ones? :)

The entire series, 2001-3001

Got it. I've read 'space opera' instead of 'space odyssey' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Odyssey

I tried the get through the Three Body but it was a slog and I didn't really get the hype for it. I agree with all the other recs but Three Body is just not a universally lovable book.

I could not agree more with this. I find sci fi authors can fall into the trap of being so in love with their concept they forget about the characters, and IMO The Three Body problem has that issue in spades; I just didn't care about the characters. They struck me as two dimensional cardboard cutouts.

Now, I grant you, some of the challenge might be in a) lacking Chinese historical and cultural background, and b) the nature of the translation itself. But I simply could not get into this series.

I'm currently re-reading Seveneves again. Great book. I even like the third part which many people have criticized. However, that might have actually planted the seed for this new book.

This book looks like it might be a bit in the same spirit in the sense that our home planet is abused a bit. Part three of Seveneves is about the aftermath of essentially terra forming Earth in the distant future after it gets destroyed in part 1.

People think about other planets when it comes to terra forming but of course our home planet might be the easiest one to practice on and doing so might get a bit urgent as we seem to be destroying it. Great premise for a near future science fiction novel.

If you are looking for recommendations. Ian Banks can be a bit hard to read but can be very entertaining. Arthur C Clarke wrote some awesome science fiction. More recently, The Martian (Andy Weir) was great. And Andy Weir just published another book that's on my list to read soon. The expanse series of books (James S. A. Corey) is a good read. 2312 (Stanley Robinson) is also worth a look.

And of course if you at all enjoyed Seveneves, you might want to read the rest of what NS wrote. Anathem is great. Snow Crash, the Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon are classics at this point.

The gateway books, the mote in gods eye, ringworld series, robots series from asimov, the expanse series, three body problem series, the culture series of books by Ian Banks. There are tons more lol.

Space opera:

- The Culture series by Banks

- Dune, at least the first book

Psycho paranoia classics:

- Anything by Philip K Dick, especially Ubik

- Solaris by Lem

1000+ pages of terraforming epic: Mars trilogy by KS Robinson

Hardest sci fi ever, a HN classic whenever cellular automata are discussed: Permutation City by Greg Egan

I loved Permutation City. Have you read anything of the Orthogonal series by Egan? The Clockwork Rocket bent my mind and feels like harder sci-fi still.

Yeah, agreed, the same goes for "dichronauts". Sci fi so hard it cuts diamonds.

I read almost everything Egan published. While I love his work dearly, I've had very poor success with introducing people to his "alternative physics" stories (where he takes some law, flips a sign somewhere and rolls with the consequences [])... it's TOO hard. Not everyone likes a sci fi book that requires readers to follow along with pen and paper. So I always first recommend Permutation City, or maybe the short story collections such as "axiomatic"...

[] https://www.gregegan.net/DICHRONAUTS/00/DPDM.html

Foundation is great. Dune (original 6 books). All of Iain M Banks sci fi. Alastair Reynolds’ books. Dan Simmons’ Endymion series.

Besides all the good suggestions I’d also recommend Ender’s Game and its sequel (but not much else from the author unfortunately). Relativity / time dilation is used very interestingly in its plot line, which drew me to it.

The short story is the place the genre developed and where many of the jewels are found. You should survey the landscape and see what you like. Canticle for Leibowitz and Flowers for Algernon are two of the most haunting novellas ever penned. Who Goes There is a classic of horror. Johnny Mnemonic introduces cyberpunk, and Snow Crash ended it.

Greg Egan, Robert Forwards are on the hard edge with universe driven plots. Robert Hamilton does space opera like nothing else.

Military SF is its own world, with Hammers Slammers maybe the best. Be warned: the author doesn't do gore but the horrors of modern, impersonal mechanized combat is conveyed as much as words can be.

The Terra Ignota series is fantastic.

For anyone else who is confused when trying to track down this author - I believe Robert Hamilton should actually be Peter F. Hamilton

Thank you for fixing my editing errors! You are correct.

"Stranger in a strange land" and "Starship Troopers" by Heinlein.

I recently enjoyed Children of Time. It has it all: Terraforming, post-apocalyptic civilization, alien warfare, artificial intelligence, biological computers...

> Foundation series is a must read

I love the foundation series, but it was written in a very different time. Don't expect well developed characters.

I haven't read Seveneves, but other stephenson novels tend to be him nerding out on some really big idea. If you like that sort of thing (and are ok with the author really going into the tech side of the idea) greg egan is really good.

Science fiction is a pretty broad field, with lots of different types of books that concentrate on different things, so its going to vary depending on what you like. At the same time, without more to go on, this thread will probably just be a list of every famous sci-fi novel ever (if that's what you're looking for, may i suggest picking some novels at random off the nebula award winners list? There are some exceptions, but most are quite good and its a little bit of everything)

One that I don't often see recommended, but my absolute favorite sci-fi book, is A Deepness in the Sky by Vernor Vinge [0], which won the Hugo in 2000.

It's a hard-sci-fi story about how various societies, human and alien, attempt to assert control & hegemony over centuries of time (in many ways thinking of this as a distributed systems and code documentation problem!), and how critical and impactful the role of language translation is in helping people to understand foreign ways of thinking. At the novel's core is a question very akin to that of philosophical antipositivism [1]: is it possible (or optimal for your society) to appreciate and emphasize with people wholly different from oneself, without interpreting their thoughts and cultures in language and description that's familiar to oneself, even if this is more art than science? There's a meta-narrative to this as well about how the reader should interpret the book with that question in mind, though to say anything more would delve into spoilers. And lest you think it's just philosophical deepness, it's also an action-packed page-turner with memorable characters despite its huge temporal scope.

While technically it's a prequel, it works entirely standalone, and is arguably best read first without knowing character details from its publication-time predecessor. Content warnings for mind control and assault (though they're handled thoughtfully IMO). Highly, highly recommend.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Deepness-Sky-Zones-Thought/dp/0812536...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipositivism

It really sort of depends what you read for, if it is characterization or language for example, Foundation is not very good (except for one exception) - it is recognizably of its time (the 50s) in many sorts of laughable ways. You might also dislike it because of its view on gender roles.

What it has is some fun ideas, and one really interesting character who informs lots of similar characters that came after him in the writing of other authors.

I should apologize for the dismal grammar, just had a couple near sleepless nights so I wasn't at my peak. I meant that there was one exception to the observation that characterization in Foundation was not very good.

Yes, the Foundation series is short and great, but only the original. I think the later additions were a let down.

The Dispossessed, by Ursula Le Guin, if you like to explore different social systems and its implications. Great, but might not be everyone's taste.

The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, obviously, which is half dry British humor and half nerd humor. I probably missed half of the British humor part, but even so it's really great. Recommended if you want to spend a weekend laughing.

Dune (first book only), The Fountains of Paradise by Arthur Clark, Robert Heinlein (Starship Troopers, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Stranger in a Strange Land), Uplift Series by David Brim, The Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanly Robinson, Ann Leckies books are really interesting new sf.

In addition to all the other recommendations, I recommend Blindsight. You can buy it where all good books are sold, or the author also gives it away on his website (https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm) but considers it good form to send a donation his way if you enjoy it.

Some fans of the book put together a short teaser trailer for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkR2hnXR0SM

Blindsight was good, but really dense. I devour most sci-fi but had to read Blindsight twice before I had any confidence that I understood what was going on.

Blindsight by Peter Watts for all these scientific details, classic first contact setting and powerful words, Hyperion Cantos if you want space opera

You’re getting a ton of great recommendations for novels, but I would recommend also checking out some short story collections. Story stories are maybe the perfect format for science fiction, since it lets brilliant ideas play out rapidly. Check out “The Best of Kim Stanley Robinson”, “Stories of Your Life and Others” and “Exhalation” by Ted Chiang, “Pump Six and Other Stories” by Paolo Bacigalupi, and “Burning Chrome” by William Gibson.

Thanks for these recommendations, I have rarely seen short stories being recommended for Sci-fi, will definitely take a look.

In addition to everything everyone else said, I have loved all of Ted Chiang's short stories. And almost everything Neal Stephenson's written, with the exception of REAMDE (which I personally found rather forgettable).

I would also recommend Dune, but unlike some of the other commenters, I would recommend the entire series. At the very least, read Dune and Dune Messiah together. (I found the first 100 pages or so of Dune a bit tough going, but once you get into it, it's fantastic.)

Hyperion trilogy is extremely good.

Neuromancer is a must read, a true masterpiece.

Tales of Pilot Pirx is another type of sci-fi, also very enjoyable.

During this past year, I’ve been inhaling books like nobody’s business and, in particular, re-discovering my love of science fiction.

Anathem was by far my favorite discovery of the whole year in any genre, highly highly recommended. (I much preferred it to Cryptonomicon actually.) I found it beautiful and deep and entertaining on every level.

+1 for Anathem. Seveneves, especially the seemingly tacked-on last part of Seveneves, is weak drivel compared to that book.

Throughout the pandemic I have re-read Anathem several times. The thought of a cloistered community in pursuit of knowledge (mathic society) ends up being my happy place.

I can highly recommend Chasm City [1] by Reynolds. I think its greatly under-appreciated! It's full of creativity and unexpected turn of events...

[1]: https://www.amazon.de/Chasm-City-English-Alastair-Reynolds-e...

Stephenson books are such milestones, and such a gas, I like to stay a couple behind, to have them to look forward to.

So, good news! I can finally read another.

Going by the title, I think I can guess the proposed solution to global warming. Anyone else thinking along those lines?

Ooh! I spent too much time on a wiki for The Baroque Cycle. I should try to bring that back up someday!

There's one here that you could contribute to, if you wanted have someone else host your data :->

https://baroquecycle.fandom.com/wiki/The_Baroque_Cycle_Wiki

"Termination Shock takes readers on a thrilling, chilling visit to our not-too-distant future – a world in which THE GREENHOUSE EFFECT has inexorably RESULTED IN a whirling-dervish troposphere of superstorms, rising sea levels, global flooding, merciless heat waves, and VIRULENT, DEADLY PANDEMICS." (emphasis mine) Can anyone explain-me-like-5 possible logic here?

Climate change leads to habitat destruction, which results in migration of animals. Animals coming into closer contact with each other and with humans with increased frequency. The novel encounters of species brought on due to habitat destruction leads to more opportunities for viruses to jump from species to species, or two viruses of the same family recombining their genetics and creating a new virus. Habitat destruction brings humans into closer contact with animals they weren't in contact with before, and this leads to more opportunities for zoonotic transmission.

Also who knows what kinds of viruses are lurking frozen in the melting permafrost.

Not available until November, sadly.

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