Comment by jackson1442 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by jackson1442 | Hacker News Reader

I felt this. My university has been using Respondus LockDown with webcam to proctor many exams and it feels like a violation of my privacy to have to use that software. Not only does it feel wrong to have such an adversarial application on my personal computer, it has caused my laptop to kernel; I found out I could check out laptops which I now use to take exams.

I feel significantly more stressed while taking an exam with webcam. I don't cheat-- I don't _need_ to cheat, and yet still feel more stressed on these exams because of how many things can go wrong. When taking math-heavy exams I would frequently get a warning from the software that my face was not in view... because I was working on my paper.

I think professors caught on. Using LockDown seemed to fall out of style somewhat for my second semester. In classes where there was no monitoring software, exams felt easier just being allowed to take them in a comfortable environment. I don't have to think about keeping my eyes 100% on the screen the whole time and I don't have to worry about my laptop crashing or internet going out-- I can tether if I need to. Being able to listen to music during exams was just a cherry on top.

> I would frequently get a warning from the software that my face was not in view... because I was working on my paper.

From the linked article:

> “I got flagged quite a few times for moving, or taking a second and looking away while thinking,” says Olivia Eskritt, a second-year student at St. Clair College....

I was talking with someone on Zoom the other day, and I noticed that she would generally look at the camera while listening to me but often look away while talking. I know that she wasn’t reading something or looking at somebody else in the room; she was just concentrating on what she said, and it was easier for her to do so when she wasn’t looking at my face on the screen.

I’ve never analyzed videos of myself talking, but I suspect that my eyes also tend to wander when I’m thinking hard about something. I can’t imagine having to try to control the direction my gaze when taking a test.

You're supposed to shift your gaze to prevent eyestrain headaches.

>I was talking with someone on Zoom the other day, and I noticed that she would generally look at the camera while listening to me but often look away while talking.

I do this in Zooms and in person, and have done so for many years. Before talking with someone for the first time, I always let them know that I zone out when talking or thinking about what they're saying.

I'm sorry that happened to you and also glad you're in a better place! :)

Some of my classes use LockDown browser as well and these are computer science courses so there was a lot of pushback due to privacy concerns, so I can sympathize with your viewpoint. Although a majority of students don't cheat, it's still awful that the behavior of a few dictates how the others are perceived.

If you don't mind doing it, you can reverse engineer it to remove the VM detections / make a stealthy VM.

Some of them use state of the art obfuscation to make this a PIA, others are not that good[0]

The one I've taken a look at(forgot it's name) was using VMProtect and had a competently written VM detection routine. It wasn't my exam so I recommended that they use a kvm switch instead of fumbling around with vm hiding tools.

[0]: https://secret.club/2019/05/16/exam-surveillance2.html

This was something I attempted, but couldn't get it to work. At some point we just have to refuse.

If this is what I was facing @ uni I'd drop out & build in the where your deepest curiosities & ambitions lead you.

You'll learn & grow so, much, quicker.

The open source / decentralized finance space was where my authentic curiosity lead me.

On top of this, looking away from the subject of focus and absent-mindedly fidgeting are common behaviors of people with neurodivergent conditions like ADHD and ASD. Accusing those who seem to be putting some focus away from the test is harmful to every test taker, but significantly more harmful to neurodivergent people.

What's the worst consequence of doing exactly the opposite the software wants you to do? Just flagging?

If so, I'd put up a mid-test dance party just to mess with the program in protest. Thankfully my university hasn't adopted proctoring software.

The worst case is you get accused of cheating, and you have to appeal to someone who's never taken a test with online proctoring in their life, or the person who selected the proctoring software who presumably thinks it works OK.

> it feels like a violation of my privacy

There is no privacy while taking an exam in the classroom, which is part of the point: Exam is taking in full view of examiner (and others) in order to prevent cheating and to make it public to other students (to build trust in the fairness of the exam).

If the exam is taken at home because of extraordinary circumstances it is reasonable to implement measures to replicate this and as it happens I don't think that there is an alternative to software with webcam.

Except this software tends to do so much worse, like scanning hard drives and monitoring processes and network traffic.

Source: Forced to install one, refused, and getting given a spare laptop instead.

Perhaps they do, but if you think about it is it unreasonable?

You are taking an exam with an unknown active computer in front of you. You could have any sort of material displayed on screen and/or connectivity to a third party, or whatnot.

An alternative, which you mention, is to be given a trusted laptop for the duration of the exam. A potential issue there is that they may not have so many devices available to distribute.

There are always trade-offs.

Yes, it is unreasonable to force people to install literal spyware on their computers.

It’s funny how lots of students (rightly so) get defensive about software that scans your hard drive and monitors processes, but then they install all these random games or apps like TikTok on their phone which comes with a cocktail of more invasive access.

I mean, I also refuse to install TikTok and Valorant for the same reasons. Don't paint us with the same brush. At least Android and iOS have a decent sandbox. Aka they can't just index my files.

The equivalent here is your examiner rummaging through your backpack and yelling at you because you stared off into space pondering a hard question.

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