On the world of DLLs and COM, those compile times are relatively ok.
Unless by then cargo has already learned how to deal with binary crates.
I agree that Cargo is much better than the Go build system, though.
Binary caching á la Nix can work, but I can't really see that working out without Nix's commitment to environment purity.
Sounds like something is pretty screwed up if you're running cargo clean as part of your regular workflow.
> works in domains that don't depend on selling binary libraries for their business
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes? Meh.
Rust Cargo does about as well, probably the best for a compiled language. NPM could be about as good too - it almost feels like they deserve a point off for the ridiculously huge number of tiny packages required to do anything, though that isn't really the dependency manager's fault.
If you want to be sure of what version you get, use it.
Yes, you can ask the tool to print them. This is way worse than any of the other systems being discussed, where you can read a file in the repo.
So other than having a lockfile and having a flexible version specification (and a sensible way to resolve multiple version requests), Maven did "it" first!
... what was "it" again?
Your Go project must be on an epic scale to break even 10 minutes of compile time.
Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/303/
$ /usr/bin/time go build ./cmd/ekglue
70.33user 32.72system 0:07.92elapsed 1300%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata
583644maxresident)k
333392inputs+1232496outputs (14768major+1135114minor)pagefaults 0swaps
$ /usr/bin/time go build ./cmd/ekglue
1.54user 0.90system 0:00.33elapsed 741%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata
71952maxresident)k
16inputs+0outputs (3major+11111minor)pagefaults 0swaps
It was 8 seconds for a clean build, and 330ms for an incremental build. I agree that building on a 1 core machine with no build cache and module cache is slow. I also realize it's a big pain to preserve the cache between docker builds, so you probably hit this with every commit in CI. The problem is really CI, not Go, but I agree that it sucks. I use Cloud Build / Kaniko which has decent caching, but I do have to wait 1 minute on every build for GCP to provision a new machine (since I'm using a larger-than-default machine; the time spent sleeping while a machine is provisioned is saved by parallelism in the Go compiler). Meanwhile, I run tests on CircleCI, and that is mostly bogged down by very high network contention; pulling caches is slower than rebuilding from scratch.As for modules, I like them. My biggest blocker in using other programming languages is that their package system sucks compared to Go. I do run into problems -- upstream authors don't really know how to use Go modules, and upstream applications are very quick to take on unnecessary dependencies. For example, I depend on the Loki client. The Loki client and server are the same Go module, so they pin me to a particular version of the Prometheus library (that the Loki server depends on), which then pins me to a particular version of the Kubernetes library (that Prometheus depends on). Basically, the dependency graph is hundreds of times larger than it needs to be, because it's not a problem for the upstream authors and they've never thought about it. Splitting the client and server into two modules would make life much easier for consumers, but slightly harder for the producer, so it's rare that you see it one. (My team also makes an app that makes this same mistake -- forcing users of the client to depend on things like Kubernetes. It's hard to fix, because the server uses the client internally, but I may do it in the future. Or just auto-copy the client code into a separate repo + go.mod file for consumers!)
Upstream authors are also very quick to make fixes for themselves, unaware that they don't propagate to consumers. Many libraries have "replace" directives in go.mod, but those don't propagate to consumers, causing solved problems to reoccur for each consumer. You have to manually propagate them yourself. The solution there is to be a good open-source citizen -- if you have to hack up some module, either properly fork it and depend on the fork (there should be a tool that handles this renaming for you automatically), or push your changes upstream and depend on the new release.
Basically, modules involve the transitive closure of all shortcuts a bunch of people you've never met have taken, and the results are not always good. That has been true in every language I've ever used; I have 83 irrelevant Depndabot alerts that can't be fixed in most of my Javascript projects, for example. I think it's the best module / packaging system I've ever used, and I like it very much. In fact, there is little I'd change.
> figure out what versions are actually being built into the final binary
go list -m all
Will print the versions. go list -m -u all
Will print what versions you could upgrade to.I personally include this in every binary I produce: https://github.com/povilasv/prommod
This lets me monitor module versions across the fleet. If there's a security problem in a module, I can instantly see which apps are affected, and update them.
minor correction: just `go list` on these. the `-m` ensures it's in module-mode.
Its slightly annoying that your dependencies' optional dependencies pollute your go.sum, but it really doesn't matter. If those don't show up in your package import graph they won't be included in your builds.
I made a test module that depends on loki and kubernetes, and updating kubernetes results in:
$ go get k8s.io/client-go@v0.19.0
go: downloading k8s.io/client-go v0.19.0
go get: downgraded github.com/grafana/loki v1.5.0 => v1.0.2
go get: downgraded github.com/thanos-io/thanos v0.12.1-0.20200416112106-b391ca115ed8 => v0.11.0
go get: downgraded k8s.io/client-go v12.0.0+incompatible => v0.19.0
This causes loki to downgrade to a version that doesn't work.I don't blame the module system for this, I think it's doing a great job. But when you use other people's code, you're responsible for the transitive closure of all their minor tiny mistakes, and when you depend on big codebases, the mistakes really add up. That's where the hate comes from; a lot of code was written before modules existed, and modules changed the semantics of that code.
k8s has so far decided not to use module versions, which makes using k8s with Go hard.
The anchor tags for the listings go to top instead of being self-referencing. Is that a bug?
Like
format = `<h3 id="%d"><a href="#0">%s</a></h3>` +
Should be format = `<h3 id="%d"><a href="#%d">%s</a></h3>` +
And Fprintf should duplicate a parameter?Hm. I guess the web has programmed me differently. Say I'm CTRL-F searching through the page and I notice an interesting bit of code and say "Hey I have a question about this". Then I start looking for a shortcut to that one file and assume that shortcut is the nearby <h3> header. I expect this because I've seen this pattern implemented a lot. You could have the <h3> be that local anchor and a short [top] link next to it.
- Goland from Jetbrains; awesome but costly
- Vscode with golang plugin; slow, brittle, little functionality
-vim; yuck
It'd help adoption greatly if there was a decent free option here.
Its there everywhere you need it. If I have to use these other fancy pants editors I always enable vim emulation when possible but its never the same.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_(windowing_system)
[2]: https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/man/man4/plumber.html
The only thing it has going for it is being based on Oberon's UI workflows.
The only GoLand feature I've seen that I'm envious of is the mode for editing template files - and even this breaks down quickly once you leave the HTML plane.
One amusing downside: the Golang hello world binary takes 2 MB; when compiled with gcc though (against libgo, therefore, dynamically linked), it takes an astonishing 60 KB - not even 64 KB!
For example, that's all that the production image of NATS Streaming is - https://github.com/nats-io/nats-streaming-docker/blob/024b04...
It's so crazy where we are.
It's like when people whinge about Electron. Electron gets you a runtime that's near identical across the major platforms, with a11y (something the Linux native toolkits still don't have their shit together on) essentially for free, plus you can use modern reactive component frameworks like React and Vue on the desktop. Yeah, I'll pay 300 MiB for that.
And even then it's not a sure win, because LTO can remove a lot of useless code from dependencies, so if you only use a small part of a dependency you might still be better off with static linking regardless of other factors.
It's pretty hard to justify the complexity and overhead of dynamic linking nowadays, IMO.
Unless you’re in the lucrative hello world industry. Or at least I assume it’s lucrative since so many people come here posting about hello world binary sizes—it certainly seems to employ a lot of people.