Playdate pre-orders begin in July | Hacker News Reader

Playdate pre-orders begin in July

play.date

353 pointscepp209 comments

Ars Technica has a good article about it, if you want an overview: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/06/playdate-the-console-...

as well as an article from a couple years ago about the device: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/why-the-quirky-playda...

Lucas Pope's section of the update video [0] has me incredibly excited. He's one of my favorite game developers, and seeing him work more with 1-bit 3D games after Obra Dinn has piqued my interest. Also, a blog on dithering I came across after playing Obra Dinn was one of the more interesting tech blogs I've read [1]. Also see Lucas Pope's post on how he did dithering in-game [2].

[0] https://youtu.be/DeWGukDrc1U?t=455

[1] https://surma.dev/things/ditherpunk/

[2] https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=40832.msg136374...

On the one hand, it's amazing, it's ~$220 for games.

On the other hand, is this games?

It's so tough out there. Lucas Pope obviously works really hard. Just imagine you're an otherwise successful indie game developer, you put out two amazing games, and it still isn't viable to make a third, in 2021.

That doesn't happen with movies. You make two budget positive or critically acclaimed movies, you get to make a third. You don't have to go and make something else.

> and it still isn't viable to make a third, in 2021.

I didn’t go through all the parent’s sources, can you tell me where this was stated?

I don't really understand what you're saying. I'm pretty sure Lucas Pope does whatever he wants at this point. After Papers, Please, Obra Dinn was clearly a creative pursuit that took years, he obsessed over the dithering for eons... This isn't someone out there struggling to make a buck.

Yes. The Ars Technica interview from a couple of years ago is great: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/01/from-uncharted-to-obr...

The most relevant quote to this discussion is probably:

> "My wife played [an early Papers, Please prototype] and said, 'You can finish this, but afterwards, you gotta get a job,'" Pope says with a laugh. "Which is funny, because now, whatever I show her, she's like..." Pope gestures as if he's throwing his hands in the air and giving up. "'Fuckin'... whatever, dude, I'm sure it'll work out.'"

> is this games?

yes

I am always impressed with the design of Teenage Engineering’s products but they have an air “pure consumerism”. I think this is that taken to its extreme. A toy that has a crank, retro screen, design-driven accessories, and the games are there but not promoted.

Compare that to the gameboy which put its games front and center with the selling point of being handheld. Admittedly, I would get the Playdate to put on my desk and admire as plastic art, but no more room.

At some point, the medium does become important. Every computer no matter how small can do everything now, and limiting games to a specific platform is for the most part arbitrary at this point.

So if you add limitations, or extra buttons! you end up with the rare occurrence of something new! A crank is actually a really cool addition just in terms of experimenting with gameplay.

This is something well understood in the electronic music space. The limitations of the equipment can define entire genres of music. The programmer in me is very excited about doing some dev work on a limited platform.

Indeed. I really love the Kind of Bloop[0] album, an 8-bit tribute to Kind of Blue[1] by Miles Davis (often cited as the best-selling jazz record of all time). Example song here[2].

[0] https://kindofbloop.com [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kind_of_Blue [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSCObIXDCJc

> Teenage Engineering’s products but they have an air “pure consumerism”.

I got bad news for you buddy, video games don't have a functional purpose any greater than beautiful design. You're sort of barking up the wrong tree if you wanna take a dump on something. But I think this was said in good faith, and you should just consider that Teenage Engineering's Pocket Operators have a totally different, literally unpolished aesthetic and also sell very well.

Video games serve as entertainment and for many people an escapist solution. Yes, I own a few Pocket Operators and owned an OP-1 previously. Playdate is an evolution of TE’s design aspirations. The OP-1 included video game like animation and influences in its music engines. Similar to the OP-1, I am concerned that its strict design POV may hinder creativity. Some artists prefer limitations. I would’ve loved an editable sequencer on the OP-1. Was a backlight that hard to include for the Playdate?

Aside from entertainment video games are increasingly used as a sort of virtual socializing. Especially among Gen Z with Minecraft and Roblox. Microsoft has been tailoring the Xbox experience to be way more social-oriented and I think it will pay huge dividends for them.

> video games don't have a functional purpose any greater than beautiful design

some games do, some games don't. Different games have different goals.

> literally unpolished aesthetic

They are seemingly, or apparently unpolished. Not literally. You can bet that they spent a huge amount of time making sure it looks unpolished but still good.

I think you're having this reaction because of the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia. [Nintendo's marketing for the Game Boy focused on the form and function of the device as much as its games](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-ej_8XBwmI). Believe it or not at some point the Game Boy's looks were considered fashionable!

My initial gut reaction to this product is that I must have it, but I know myself well enough that this would also just sit on a shelf somewhere looking cool but I would never touch it. The games look nice but I'm not a huge fan of it being black and white (just my personal taste). Plus I want to know that there will be a strong community making games, one that won't fizzle out too quick. it's great that Panic is releasing games for them but how long will that last? If they released a color version that ran Pico-8 there would be no question, I'd pre-order it immediately.

That being said, watching the video[1] on the site is making this look really enticing.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeWGukDrc1U

PICO-8 compatibility would be a killer feature even without color support.

You'd be pretty limited, games would have to be specifically built for the 1-bit aesthetic. Can't just slap a filter over them it'd be way too noisy.

Not quite PICO-8 but you can try https://arcade.makecode.com/ (esp. the TypeScript not blocks) - you can run these games on in-expensive (~$30) hardware [0]

[0] https://arcade.makecode.com/hardware/

Never heard of this and it looks rad so far. I'll give this a deeper look when im back at my laptop. Thanks!

> I know myself well enough that this would also just sit on a shelf somewhere looking cool but I would never touch it.

I would normally have the same reaction, except for whole "two new games every week" setup. I actually love these sorts of little timed deliveries, and I think it will keep me engaged.

Also, re: black and white, from what I understand they're using one of those high-contrast memory LCD screens, similar to what's on the Pebble 2. Those look super nice, kind of halfway between e-ink and a standard LCD screen.

> they have an air “pure consumerism”

It's not clear what you're saying here. What is "pure consumerism"? Are you suggesting that aesthetics is bad? It's a stylish object. People enjoy stylish objects.

> the games are there but not promoted.

that's probably because the developers are still working on the games and aren't ready to fully show them off yet.

Well, it sounds like to me, that TE just did the hardware design, and PANIC is really the one making the decisions for the software/games side.

That being said, Teenage Engineering is one of those brands that has massively disappointed me over time. When the OP-1 came out it was a truly innovative, beautiful, and robust synthesizer... Despite that, everything they make now just seems over-hyped, over-priced, and homogeneous.

I mean their most recent "innovations" are, no-joke: a $600 portable AM/FM + BT radio, whose only real feature is a massive buffer so you can rewind or fast forward in real-time, and a robot that dances to music.

They're great at predictable, minimal design, there is no doubt there, but that's about it.

I don't get why everyone here is comparing this to gameboy emulators.

There's a million ways to emulate gameboy at this point. There are emulators that run on pretty much every single platform. You can get a $40 handheld on Amazon that can do it.

To me the selling point of this system is that you can play _new_ games that are in a cool retro 1-bit art style.

That itself is a unique thing

Also it’s a handheld for which it will be (if all works as advertised) very easy to develop.

One thing that irks me is that the Dev environment is clearly at least public beta ready. I’d like to see and try it before preordering though.

Agree - like they should want people developing to it before it's released. This effectively gives them a rather odd lock-out period from the larger community.

They addressed the SDK availability here - https://twitter.com/playdate/status/1400849495198289920?s=19

Basically, they don't have resources yet to open it up and support it enough for people to have good experience with it.

I don't think that's a good enough reason. They could make it a 'use at your own risk' type situation and/or let people band together in a group and talk out and try to work through any issues they have without their involvement.

You need to let people start getting ready for this any way you can, especially as this is a potentially niche product that's not going to have any major developers working on it.

Best I can do right now is work on game logic elsewhere and try to be ready to do a port when they finally go public with it, hopefully before its official release.

> You need to let people start getting ready

Maybe they don't? They seem to have plenty of games coming out in time for launch from great developers.

If you want to write a 1 bit retro game at this point, hardware is not what's holding you back. There are thousands of hobbyist 6502 kits you can buy, not to mention retro computers that people keep in like-new condition and put on eBay. (There are lots of people still writing new C64 and Apple II games.) Or you could use an Arduino and LCD. Or, you can just only use one color in a <canvas> tag.

I think what people want is a platform where a captive audience has to play your game, because there aren't any good games for the platform. If you target modern computers, you're competing with games like League of Legends or Overwatch, which have large teams behind them. If you target this shitbox, your competition is some game where you spin a crank so you aren't late to an e-date. Your chance of "winning" is high.

It remains to be seen whether some exclusive game is so good that it sells the console. I only buy Nintendo products so I can play their exclusive games. I would much prefer to run them on my PC, but they demand an extra $500 tax. Good business model! Maybe it can be yours too.

I agree with your point about Nintendo, I always thought they should release their own Steam clone that requires a $100 per year subscription before you can even buy the games. That would replace the hardware revenue and free them from the burden of making hardware. I'm guessing the reason they don't is that they're a Japanese company primarily focused on a Japanese audience who don't necessarily own gaming PCs.

But regarding the Playdate, I think your take is too uncharitable. Here's a better way to frame it: Steam is great, but it's hard for indie developers to get noticed. What if we could split off a group of customers (who want retro indie games) into their own curated mini-Steam? Developers will surely come and make games, spurred by the confidence that they can get their stuff noticed. And then more customers will come, enticed by the curated ecosystem that makes it easy to get high-quality retro indie games.

Who is this built for?

Serious question. Yeah it looks cool but in a joke sense. It doesn't really look like it is going to do anything well. The accessories look even more like a joke. Obviously im not the target customer, but im trying to figure out who is?

I have two personal use cases

1) Myself, I grew up on a game boy color and I have a nostalgia for playing games where the developers were so bound by compute resources on the device they were developing for. It allowed smaller teams to be very competitive in game design but also enabled a different sort of creativity than what is commonly seen today in game design where resources are virtually unlimited. I've also been wanting to toy with game development for a while now. This seems like a neat and quirky way to jump in.

2) My kid, I think we've gotten far too good at making video games addictive for kids. I want my child to have video games the way I did, with simple graphics, stories and gameplay that come to an end, unlike games like fortnite that you can keep playing for eternity. Added benefit if he gets to experience trying to play games without a backlight using the streetlights to see as you drive down the road.

ok I can see that.

Its just if I came across this website and didn't know any better. I'd 100% think this is some elaborate April fools prank.

look at the game titles. Forest Byrnes Up in smoke Casual Birder Executive Golf

It just seems like they're trying to hard not to be "cool" and trying not to take themselves seriously.

Forest Byrnes is from Panic's prior published game, Firewatch.

> It just seems like they're trying to hard not to be "cool" and trying not to take themselves seriously.

This is worded like a criticism but it’s exactly why I can’t wait to get one of these.

They’re in Portland. You just described Portland.

The idea is that it is a non-smartphone device intended to occupy someone and delight someone in small doses. It also intended to drive a community of creativity with it being an open dev platform.

It's just meant to be something fun you can pull out and play for a little while. Just like Teenage Engineering's Pocket Operators were designed to be. I think we might have passed the point of realizing how wonderful it is to make something fun and whimsical with minimal profit ambitions.

Another bit is that the people who built it are legendary software developers who created Audion in the early 2000s (who then turned down an acquisition from Apple to become iTunes so Apple had to buy their worse competitor), Transmit (FTP), Coda, Nova, Prompt, and who published Firewatch and Untitled Goose Game. The idea is that it's a gimmick done hardcore and right.

Seems like a huge amount of interest. Personally I love the idea of whimsical creative ideas come to life.

People who like retro-style indie games, people looking for something new aside from PC/console games, people who want to make games for a handheld, people looking for novelty. People trying to find joy. It's easy to figure out who this is for.

Was thinking that games similar to Obra Dinn would be awesome on this device, but also realize that games of that caliber are a rare thing indeed.

In the long run I'd think that the lack of colors is a deal breaker, so I think you're right this is very much a niche type of product.

Uh... You'll be happy then. Lucas Pope is at work on a game for this called Mars After Midnight.

I don't think Mars After Midnight is going to be "like" Obra Dinn. Pope's said himself he wants to work on something much smaller in scope, and given the whimsy of what he has so far I don't see it growing into something like Obra Dinn.

As somebody who wants no sequel more than Obra Dinn 2, I don't think this is it. I always look forward to seeing Pope's work, though, and I hope he's working on something that he enjoys.

It's art. It's for people who appreciate video games as art.

Or maybe it's just a goofy little toy for grownups who remember growing up with a Gameboy by their side, and want a whimsical grown-up version that they can keep in their pocket. With a fidget spinner on the side that also acts as an input for some games.

Or if you are really really cynic: It's like one of those knock-off consoles that your tech-oblivious grandparents would get you, that comes preloaded with a bunch of no-name games of questionable quality, only with a bright coat of color and a cool marketing page!

Execution is everything. While Panic's initial idea is no different than a no-name console, with the reputation and pedigree of the people involved, I wouldn't be surprised Panic has a commercial and artistic success on its hands.

You've got to be kidding me

It will be a success for them selling overpriced hardware during the presale

and thats it

even the kids obsessed with the 90s because they were too young to remember it or too young to be born yet wont even use their chance to actually buy a “retro” product that is reminiscent of the 80s and 90s

DOA DNR

I think this correct. This may be a profitable venture but it won’t move the needle in the games market. It will be a blip, an afterthought.

TO makes fantastic and artsy hardware. But it’s a couple dozen artsy indie games. The competition is free, AAA quality, available on all platforms and what everyone’s friends are playing.

By industry measures, it will not be a “commercial success”.

> Who is this built for?

I don't know, but it seems buying a standard console would get you more games and less e-waste.

I’m a bit shocked at the price! It’s the same price I recently paid for a switch lite. I don’t understand how it can be so expensive.

Economies of scale. Nintendo has decades of hardware expertise, industry weight, and manufactures several orders of magnitude more units.

I think the price is pretty fair for a neat, boutique thing.

Also Nintendo make more money from the games than the consoles.

Check what Aliexpress has to offer for 1/10th of the price... Even with games, it seems very expensive...

If you want to spend 30 bucks to play 8 billion different choices of quarter eaters on a glorified MAME piracy emulator that will probably also burn your house down from a battery fire, go for it. Don't forget the renters insurance.

If looking at raw CPU speed is what makes a console fun for you, and creativity doesn't matter at all, this is clearly not your platform. Some of us have different metrics for what makes game platforms fun that aren't just it costs less than a 24 pack of pepsi, 8000 choices of softcore pornography mahjong games, and how many polygons you can throw on a screen while cooking an egg on the graphics card.

The Alibaba consoles are just straight up creativity death - their business model is to bottom feed what tiny value remains out of old games they didn't make. Their long term accomplishment, should society be awful enough to let them solely succeed, will be the death of any ability to make new games or innovate in any way, leaving the entire non-Nintendo industry to just bottom feed compete with each other on slightly cheaper consoles in an eventual race to the bottom, while Nintendo releases the 600th version of Mario Kart, because it's easier and safer for them to copy than to innovate.

Playdate has a real chance to inject some creativity, competition, and openness to the platform world, and there's nothing especially novel about that to anyone that has read the history of computing and knows what games like Spacewar did. These kinds of "novelties" have a way of changing everything in ways nobody can really understand at the time.

> I don’t understand how it can be so expensive.

CNC milled novelty crank.

If the games are good, then it’s for anyone who enjoys good computer games.

If they are not, then it’s not for anyone.

it's for people that want to play games on a little yellow brick with a black-and-white screen and a hand crank.

It's for people not really interested in games to buy and then proclaim breathlessly on social media that it's just so amazing and lifechanging, before it goes permanently to a shelf visible in all their Zoom calls to never be played with again.

the idea that people who play games other than the games you play are "not really interested in games" is bizarre gatekeeping.

It's definitely a cynical take but I don't mean it as gatekeeping; I think people get hyped up in gaming devices pre-launch like the Ouya that are better done anywhere else and when they actually try it are underwhelmed and don't use it.

enthusiasts of video games that are looking for a unique experience.

I've gone through the page a bunch of times now, read through the hn comments here and the arstechnica article linked in the top comment. But I'm still having a hard time appreciating this as art or even something non-gimicky and even slightly scammy.

For $179 + shipping you're buying a small underpowered device with a black and white screen, a handcrank analog controller and 24 games. For an extra $29 you can buy a snazzy case and coming soon a stereo mount that's going to be impractical to use while playing so I'm guessing will be for playing music.

The system's closed and going to be reliant on either their SDK or soon to be coming editor. From the sounds of it, there will be ongoing subscription payments for new games.

They're releasing the system without the SDK or editor. On their developer page they have a bunch of vague 'coming soon' promises with no actual timelines or anything. They have no actual plans for any kind of centralized distribution for games.

Overall, it seems like there's a lot of work or even planning that should have been done before starting pre-orders. At this point you're purchasing less than half the advertised features with no real plans as to when they'll be forthcoming.

Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea. Plenty of great people have made lackluster things. Especially in the video game world. A lot of this seems to be more hype because of the people behind the project than the project itself.

> For $179 + shipping you're buying a small underpowered device with a black and white screen

They never positioned it as a competitor to a modern portable like the Nintendo Switch so who cares? Do any of those games on the home page look like they need a modern chip?

> They have no actual plans for any kind of centralized distribution for games.

What are you basing that off of? Because they didn't detail the specifics of how the games are going to be distributed?

> Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea.

Indeed, which is why you can wait to buy it until it's out and has been reviewed by others.

>What are you basing that off of? Because they didn't detail the specifics of how the games are going to be distributed?

https://play.date/dev/

>As for a more official way to distribute them, we’re still exploring different ideas for the best experience of getting games out to Playdate owners.

For a product advertised as a hobby device for devs and gamers, not having a distribution system planned for user made games is not going to help this product thrive.

Things like this tend to be made or broken by the community that builds around them. Look at something like the pico-8. Not exactly the same product, but the markets for them I imagine certainly overlap. The Pico-8 makes distribution of community created content a priority, something that's definitely been instrumental in its success.

Without a community of devs that can support the Playdate and a system they can use to easily distribute content, it's not going to last long.

It seems backwards to try and build a community of devs around a product after it's released. I seem to recall at least one console that died sometime in the 90's for exactly this reason.

There are already developers working on making games for it:

https://twitter.com/playdate/status/1293636186045480960

>For $179 + shipping

How much should it be?

You can buy a handheld that plays all 16-bit games, GBA games, mame, etc. for under $50.

What's interesting about that?

Emulating SNES and Genesis games was fun back in 1997 but really are we not tired of that by now?

Just how many times can you go through the emulator dance of downloading all the games then playing each for less than 3 minutes before you give up.

> Just how many times can you go through the emulator dance of downloading all the games then playing each for less than 3 minutes before you give up.

What makes this any different?

It's all new games made specifically for this platform? What do you mean?

How much does it then cost to buy all of those games?

You can but Nintendo Switch Lite for $200.

> slightly scammy

This is highly offensive to me. Making hardware is hard, everyone here should know that. Here we have a company, with a great reputation, taking a big risk to offer us something different, and people's first reaction is to assume bad intentions?

> Just because a well known name is behind a project doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a good product or a great idea

Therefore it's a scam? That is quite some logic there.

That seems awfully disingenuous. The rest of my post is why i consider it slightly scammy. A lot of buzz with less substance than promised and no actual commitments to the devs they're also advertising too that will inevitably be the ones that support the playdate in the long term.

A scam is by definition something with malicious intent, something dishonest, and I think that's why the other commenter took offense. It might not live up to the hype, and maybe it'll be lackluster, who knows - no one has played with it yet outside of Panic. But I think it's fair and not disingenuous that the other commenter took a lot of offense to using that word, because by all accounts it doesn't seem to be a scam. I would find a better word that doesn't imply malice.

It seems like there's a modern definition of scam, especially with gamers, which is hyping or marketing a game too well and not completely delivering on promises (often imagined) due to budget constraints, design or technical challenges and often just inflated expectations. This happens with products that a perfectly fine but aren't what people expect, and products that "work" but are buggy or don't deliver all features immediately.

See all of Peter Molyneux's games post Bullfrog, No Man's Sky at launch, Cyberpunk 2077, Magic Leap. I agree that putting Playdate even in that category because the SDK won't be ready at launch is kind of ridiculous.

There's another reason this product doesn't fit the category you've described: they haven't spent countless millions on marketing. They just put up a website, and it's not their fault if the gaming press then turned it into the next big thing.

To me, their website comes off as sincere, earnest, and a work-in-progress-- it's kind of like a kickstarter, except with a really great team. They're not setting unreasonable expectations, and readers should be careful not to conflate what they say with what the gaming press says about them.

> it's kind of like a kickstarter

But without taking orders years in advance.

>Plenty of great people have made lackluster things

What's something lackluster that Panic has made? They certainly have had misses, but it wasn't because of the quality of the product or attention to detail. They've got a better track record than just about any dev shop.

Here's the original pitch, to give you a sense of what their motives were for making it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190523042100/https://play.date...

It's not a scam.

> For X you get Y.

Scam would be:

> For X you get WILDCARD.

If Playdate uses Sharp Memory Displays, that explains part of the price.

These screens are expensive but also very nice.

It sounds like your biggest complaint is that there's no clear roadmap for the SDK/devkit that people could use to get into game development, and no clear plans for an app store or some other way for devs to then publish their games. This makes you wonder how they're going to build up their game dev ecosystem.

What I gather from the website is that they're coming at it differently: inviting a hand-picked group of game devs (both experienced and new) and heavily curating their products into weekly releases. Rather than showing players a giant app store that is mostly filled with crap, you get 2-6 high quality games per month that silently show up on your system.

It's a different approach for sure, and to me it's well worth the price to see if they can pull it off.

It's a bundle of 24 high quality games, by talented, diverse and motivated game developers for ~$8 each. And it comes with a free console. Art is worth paying for.

I appreciate the ~decent <noscript/> textContent. Telling exactly what purpose(s) JavaScript serves helps make an informed decision on whether to open a graphical web browser or continue with w3m. (In this case, it was obvious I could read on about Playdate just fine.)

I've grown sick of create-react-app default <noscript/> textContent.

> Hello! Javascript is required for purchasing, signing up for the newsletter, viewing videos, and other content on this page. Please enable Javascript.

> Your browser doesn't seem to support video.

I think the population of folks who care is too small to do that.

And honestly a good chunk of that population will still just complain anyhow / might not be persuaded. They already kinda made their call.

I think it depends on how much the set of people who browse without JavaScript and the set of people who might connect you with relevant and important people/opportunities intersects. I've heard of people running whole web ad campaigns just to reach one person.

Frankly the only time I ever see someone using a browser without JS is here on HN. Every person I know IRL or on other social media uses a regular browser like Chrome, Firefox, or sometimes Edge.

I don't think even 1% of the global population knows it's possible to browse web pages without a GUI.

It’s really nice when they do this but the no JavaScript ship has sailed.

I’d rather devs focus on accessibility for screen readers etc.

Devs who would spend the 30 seconds adding the descriptive noscript text likely also pay attention to things like alt tags and semantic markup as well.

The design and esthetics of this thing are on point. However, I agree with other comments that the games don't really speak to me, and I've found myself more interested in the pictures of the actual devices than any of the games. Regardless I hope this succeeds. Electronics need more original industrial design!

I feel the opposite -this speaks to me more than any other device I’ve seen, but I was obsessed with calculator games in high school, spending many hours on ticalc.org and IRC.

Me too, this speaks to me so much. The games all look wholesome, in line with the device itself. Judging by what I've seen, the processing power inside will be quite good and would not require optimisations unlike "retro" hardware, which would mean lots of third-party games made with relative ease.

This would be a good device to spend some time with away from social media and work.

180 dollars (plus shipping) is more than it'd cost for a modified gameboy plus a flashcart, and is near the price of an Analogue. The Analogue can play any gameboy (and advance) game every made, and is also a musical instrument.

If this was around 80$ I would be all over it.

You're not wrong, but neither of those devices come with any games (unless you buy a flashcart, which is piracy).

The Playdate cost includes 20 games by (relatively) well known indie game developers.

Piracy is competition.

Not really. I've got like 5 or 6 ways I can play Game Boy games now, I don't need another device for it. There's no other way I can play these games, so it's a new experience for me.

It is about $80. The subscription that will make it useful is the other $100 which is what you'll be paying annually to keep using it.

I’d kill to finally get me an Analogue product, they’re always out of stock whenever I try. :(

Despite having little interest in buying one myself, a suite of specially-developed surprise games seems like an interesting idea kinda like the Humble Indie Bundles... plus the upcoming web-based SDK to make your own!

Also cool to see the fantastic poolside.fm in a screenshot although the pen-holder dock feels a little kitsch. It's promising, however, that the design partners are Teenage Engineering - known for their Pocket Operators and the truly amazing OP-1 all in one synth[0] for which I strongly vouch.

[0]: https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1

If you want to comment about how it's too expensive or doesn't play 30 year old gameboy games, don't bother? This is a new device that delivers new experiences and will likely sell out of its first shipment very quickly.

I want to comment that this will be the first toy I've owned in a LONG TIME that has a crank.

And, that I expect I will have fun with it.

Fun is where it's at with a Game Console. I like the artistry but that's just a gateway ... to the fun!

I think the design and concept are really cool but it seems like actually owning it would get old too fast and be more of a novelty.

I could see myself buying this if it could emulate NES or GameBoy games though.

Yeah. They do have an SDK coming out soon looks like so I would be shocked if someone DIDN'T put a GB emulator on the thing.

There is also lots and lots of cheap emulator devices these days with more buttons and color screens like the Retroid Pocket 2 and Anbernic RG350 that also cost a fraction of the price.

Price is a bit much for me personally.

The included games seem really creative and interesting, but you're right that it'll be a fun novelty for most people, then get less interesting after a few hours or so.

I think the people who will get a lot out of it are people who get involved in the homebrew community - I spent hundreds of hours on ZZT as a kid, despite the limited ascii graphics. It's not trivial to make your own gameboy game then load it onto an actual gameboy. It seems like they've put a lot of effort into the SDK, game maker, and ease of sideloading new games.

You want the Analog Pocket: https://www.analogue.co/pocket, but its preorders instantly sold out, and its first shipment has been delayed until end of year.

Or one of the cheaper Chinese devices like the Retroid Pocket or RG531p

Wow the Analogue marketing is really working on me haha. These devices look really great!

As far as I know, everything they make sells out instantly, you'd think they could start doing bigger production runs. I realize scarcity can drive up demand, but everything in their store being out of stock is little much.

Ya, it's super frustrating!

Large continuous runs is a completely different kind of production and if they're doing batch runs large enough to have continuous stock they need a lot more initial investment and take on more risk if they flub their market predictions.

You're missing the point a bit. The focus for this device is on the community: a set of easy to use dev tools, extremely limited input and output in order to keep games focused, a distribution method, and a community built around that all with the same hard- and software, focusing on game dev and each week's new release. I'm pretty excited for it. Yeah it'll be a novelty that will wear off in a few months or maybe a couple years if they're lucky. That's exactly what I'm signing up for.

The ‘subscription’ model fit games could create an interest in competitive community if there were a local/regional/global scoreboard for each new game as they are released.

Important to keep it whimsical though. The competitive gaming scene is… intense.

Someone has already made a working Gameboy emulator for it. There is also a Doom port.

https://blog.adafruit.com/2020/07/08/gamekid-a-game-boy-emul...

Oh nice, Lua support! Should make porting one of my games (that I already mostly ported to Pico-8) to this little guy. Maybe I'll finally finish the Pico-8 port while I'm at it.

This is the original Flash version from back in the day. I'm also working on a 3D sequel with Twitch support in my limited spare time: https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/183428

I don't know why, but I have a good feeling that this device will be fairly successful. Maybe it's just good marketing on their part.

I don't really have a good idea of how to make good use of the crank, except maybe add something that allows you to go back and forward in time (at least undo support). Maybe I'll even alter the mechanics to take advantage of it, like that 5D chess game.

Crank game mechanic ideas:

safe cracking, catapult aiming, fire burner air balloon adjustment, etc...

Not sure why this got downvoted. These are great ideas! Any interaction that requires some degree (ahem) of radial precision is exactly the kind of mechanic that would shine with this novel controller.

I meant specifically for my tile-laying turn-based board game, but those are good general ideas, thanks!

I'm really interested in the Pulp web-based development environment.

I'm planning on picking up some of these to try with some junior-high and high school students in the fall -- if Covid is over by then :-)

Knowing teenageenginering, that thing is built like a brick, full aluminium and will outlast you

My pocket operators disagree - Love them to death, but I just know I'll break them some time soon (and I know I can get a case, but the device itself is NOT build that strongly).

My op-z (buttons fell off or stopped working), ob-4 (buttons fell off or stopped working), pocket operators (battery doors snapped, buttons stopped responding, lcds leaked) all join you in the disagreement. As far as I can tell the only thing they've made that is robust is the op-1 (yet..., I still love TE).

They seem very efficient at marketing; the product seems very recognisable, polarising and there have been many previous discussions [1] here already.

That being said, there's something that I don't like in this kind of marketing. To me it looks very unsubstantial and repetitive.

I guess one factor here is the price; for $179 it seems a luxury item and perhaps it's easier to believe that its flaws and unknowns are quirks or features; and that they're not worth mentioning.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27440015

From a more in-depth article from Ars:

> This "stereo dock" doesn't have a price yet, but it will ship with a preinstalled online radio option, dubbed Poolsuite FM, that Panic says will include "expertly curated Soundcloud playlists that will transport you to a magical, sun-kissed musical zone between the past and the present."

This sounds ... suspiciously like Poolside.fm

They were forced to rename

https://twitter.com/Poolsuite/status/1398007075435843592

I was also surprised to learn that the Poolside FM app is now called Poolsuite FM

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/poolside-fm/id1514817810

Way to get out of a trademark infringement maybe..?

http://poolside.fm/ also redirects to https://poolsuite.net/

Ahh, interesting! Missed this news. Makes sense.

It is. Poolside renamed itself to Poolsuite sometime in the past few weeks. They said something about a trademark infringement claim. (Whether that's real or just part of their cultivated image/backstory, I don't know.)

I hope I'm actually able to get one. New game hardware has been such an absolute nightmare to get the past few years.

I hope I'm able to afford one. At $179, I don't think supply will be a problem.

WDYM? The price is steep, but more overpriced hardware sells like hot cakes too.

For example, Analogue Pocket, the 200 USD Game Boy hardware emulator that sold out in minutes: https://www.analogue.co/pocket

Out of the box, Pocket is compatible with the 2,780+ Game Boy, Game Boy Color & Game Boy Advance game cartridge library. Pocket works with cartridge adapters for other handheld systems, too. Like Game Gear. Neo Geo Pocket Color. Atari Lynx & more. Completely engineered in two FPGAs.*

More clear cut value proposition though, you know what you are getting. With Playdate you are taking a bigger risk on the games, and getting much less power.

The value of playdate is that it’s not yet another emulator/mini-console. I find it more comparable to pico8

scalpers generally don't care about how clear cut the value proposition is. For example they bought up all the game & watch super mario handhelds right away, which has literally only 2 games on it and not enough onboard storage for much more than that. Scalpers still bought them all up. Luckily Nintendo kept shipping them out so you can get them pretty much anywhere still, unlike their amiibos.

In their video earlier they said they plan to ensure everyone who wants one can get one. Later orders might take a while but they’re not going to stop taking orders like Analogue does.

Oh, cool. Something else I can put in the no longer supported pile with my PocketCHIP.

I got one of those. Unfortunately the controls felt bad and the novelty of my Pico-8 game on there wore out quickly because of the junk feel of the buttons. This I can see being in to for longer.

The crank reminds me of one of a handheld electronic fishing game I used to have as a kid. I didn't see a fishing game listed but that would be pretty fun.

They're releasing a free SDK for it, you know what you have to do.

There is a game called "Robot Fishing" briefly featured in the video.

Man that is just a beautiful website

Both from the UX, to typography, to aesthetic (on desktop at least)

Anybody know who built this?

/s ?

This is a product of [Panic](https://panic.com). They know how to build a website. And write tools to [build a website](https://nova.app/).

Almost 100% Panic.

See their other sites: https://nova.app, https://panic.com/transmit/

This things been a long time coming. I think the first announced timeline was shipping in early 2020 at $150, and taking orders in 2019. I guess covid messed some of their timeline up, but I'm still excited about it.

I'll definitely be getting one, I think a big aspect of what makes it different is the programmability aspect. They're trying to make developing games for it super accessible, and I think it'll be a lot of fun for programmers who don't have the time to make full-on traditional games, or don't want to make decisions about the framework, language, etc. The constraints are what makes it fun. If the SDK is good, it'll be huge.

I hope they are more successful than the Ouya, best of wishes, extremely hard market to get into.

I think they are starting on the right foot. Ouya seemed to sell the idea that it might compare with hardcore consoles where it was nothing close. This seems to sell an idea where the hardware and games are one and sell itself as something silly and whimsical.

I wish them the best. Games is a cutthroat industry, and game consoles are absolutely unforgiving... The number of failure-points that can bring down the entire project (hardware disruption, lack of developer interest in building for an unproven closed system, lack of consumer interest in buying an unproven closed system) is high. Massive chicken-egg problems in closing the loop on a long-term successful console bet.

Just makes me think of when Gruber said "The story is about Playdate, the most amazing and exciting product announcement, for me, since the original iPhone." I can't help but roll my eyes at this thing.

https://daringfireball.net/2019/05/playdate

I am very much a fan of Apple products and enjoy a lot of the commentary from these apple pundits but it does feel a lot like this in-club that once you are a part of it anything you do will be praised by that group.

I feel strongly that that is the case here. From anyone outside of the bubble I feel like ultimately it’s a quirky toy for rich techies that will probably be used a couple times before the novelty wears off and you go back to playing games on almost anything else.

As for the battery life, I would have expected this to run for days, literally, but they say only 8h active. It can only power its real-time clock for 14 days. What did they do wrong? Does it scans for networks every 5 minutes?

Besides that, could be a good 5-15 minutes killer while avoiding the smartphone vortex

Link should be https://help.play.date/orders/when-can-i-preorder/ to differentiate from the main site since there's no blog post about this 'news'

The dock really makes me feel like Teenage Engineering has really gone a little deep into Panic on this. Playdate already has an overpriced accessory before anyone even has a Playdate? It's also not sounding like a very interesting one.

The (exquisite, I must add) landing page is broken on iOS - the webGL model of the hardware eats all the scroll gestures, so I couldn’t scroll down the page until one of the header links took me to the bottom, where I could scroll back up.

Previous related threads:

Playdate October 2020 Update - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24945598 - Oct 2020 (2 comments)

Playdate – December 2019 Update - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22016483 - Jan 2020 (20 comments)

Playdate – A New Handheld Gaming System - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19986106 - May 2019 (402 comments)

Taking a moment to appreciate the landing page. I had no idea about this device before, but at the end of the landing page, I know what it is, who it is made for, the idea behind it, the cost, accessories, when they start shipping, etc. They even did it with nice aesthetics and a quirky look.

Nicely done!

I'm a huge teenage engineering fanboy but whatever you do, don't break their stuff, once it's broken, it's broken. Curious if the same is true for playdate, if it's like the rest of the TE gear, If you mess up the crank, expect to buy a whole new unit.

Does this thing have long-term legs or will it wind up sitting on shelves in six months? And what about developers - if the current plan is to give away the games, what financial incentive is there to develop for it, except as a resume piece?

The screenshot of the editor [1] has a small window showing the programming language. Wondering which it is. Ruby?

   [1] https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Pulp-1-1440x997.png

It looks lilke Ruby but it's actually PulpScript, and it looks like they made it for this.

Most likely Lua. The developer page says the SDK supports Lua and C.

It's Lua. They support Lua and C.

https://play.date/dev/

From what I have read Tthey are using lua and have an sdk library similar to love2d.org

Looks like a Ruby DSL to me

So, there'll be a subscription to new games, right? What's the price for that?

I wonder how well this will fare after initial novelty wears off. And will it sell nearly enough units for there to be games for it in future... I do remember products like OUYA and how well they did...

OUYA was a good idea until no new games.. lol if I could get the play store on jt I'd be using mine to play games

I think comparisons to the ouya are pretty on the nose. Before the ouya came out gaming hipsters were all hyped about it. then it came out and it was a flop. I don't think this will be a "flop" because they are pricing it so high and this isn't panic's main business but I do think it will be quickly forgotten about.

I'm more interested in using it for non-gaming-related things since it seems like a neat little hardware package to begin with.

Now we wait for the softsynth OP-1 emulator on this to complete the circle.

they says "SDK" and then say "web based". So will I be able to run native code on this thing or no?

their original dev signup applications described the SDK as supporting C and Lua. Pulp appears to be targetting the non-programmer gamedev scene, like Bitsy and GB Studio do currently. It looks a lot like Bitsy. They seem pretty separate.

> The SDK will be available on macOS, Windows, and Linux. There are two ways to write games: using Lua, for ease of development; or using C, for games that need extra performance. You can also use both languages in the same project. Typical SDK abilities are included: graphics, sound, inputs, text, collisions, etc. We continue to add features every day!

^ that's from https://play.date/dev/

I've been looking forward to this thing

Still mad the crank doesn't charge it.

That would be interesting. Can someone who took a Physics class calculate how much energy you could get by cranking (and maybe how many cranks you'd need) to charge this bad boy up?

Lazy googling suggests 30-50Wish [1]. The gameboy uses about 1W, so maybe a 1:30 ratio of time cranking to playing? Lazy math, feel free to correct.

[1] https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2007/12/wind-up-your-la.html

1 minute of cranking for 30 minutes of play time seems honestly pretty great. Wish I could do that with an iPhone!

I have been in Miami this last week and went to the Mayweather v Paul fight and leaving there was absolute hell. Phone was at 2%, thousands and thousands of people were all trying to get Ubers at once. It was a disaster. Took two hours to find someone who was headed to Hollywood and then I charged my phone along the way and got another Uber back down to my Airbnb. #salty

Could be a cool idea to have a "dual mode bike" that could let you pedal to charge your phone. Anything like this exist lol?

Dynamo lamps have been around for decades if not longer, but they make biking less fun. Output isn't too great either at 6V/3W that seems to be typical. Though it can be bought for cheap 5€ to 36€...

Speaking of charging, does anyone know if usb-c charging is properly implemented? I've bought a number of new devices with usb-c and am disappointed they require the old usb-a to usb-c cable to charge. Has anyone tested with a Macbook charger, or a "smart" usb-c to usb-c cable?

it looks fun

Playdate seems to me like a masterclass in marketing. The device is nothing extraordinary (imo), but it's presented and marketed in a way that makes it interesting.

All Panic stuff is like that - they have great style.

I think the hardware is notably whimsical (crank, very nice 1-bit display combined with ‘fast’ processor). I agree that there’s a lot hanging on marketing/hype, but part of it is just how people like Panic overall.

> The device is nothing extraordinary (imo)

This is it: the peak Hacker News comment. A gizmo with a handcrank and a black and white screen is nothing out of the ordinary in 2021. I bet you could even make it yourself in a weekend if you just use a Raspberry Pi and an e-ink screen!

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

I'm confused. Playdate has WiFi and Bluetooth, and the Nomad didn't have any storage.

It's a reference to https://slashdot.org/story/01/10/23/1816257/apple-releases-i...

Thanks. I also forgot Creative had a Nomad, I was thinking of Sega.

I didn't read that comment as "a DIY one is just as good". More like, it's not high spec, it's pretty minimalist and low tech. The execution could still be good and the choice can still be unique.

How it works and what it does and what it's made of are very different things (cite: Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance) and once the novelty of how it works has worn off (yes, kudos, BTW) what is left is a mildly interesting device. The SDK and ecosystem are also mildly interesting, but the cute factor will wear off quickly and it's probably go the way of Neil Young's Pono.

I feel it's pricy novelty product. And even with SDK, I wonder will there be new games in couple years? I don't think they will actually sell enough to justify development time...

> I bet you could even make it yourself in a weekend

This is it: the peak Hacker News comment.

hell ya, just another weekend project. nothing to be seen here. where's the dropbox post, etc

I don't understand your comment. I feel like you're mocking the parent but at the same time you make it sound very reasonable. You can indeed make a gizmo with a handcrank with a black and white screen in a weekend.

I think here what will make or break it will be if it manages to reach a critical amount of early adopter to justify making games for the platform, otherwise it's going to end up like the Ouya, hipster version.

Personally I think it's cute and I'm vaguely interested by it, but at the current price point it seems like a tough sale. For literally $20 more you get a Nintendo Switch Lite (admittedly without games).

On the other hand there’s this tendency to put down any kind of criticism as dumb, implying the person “just doesn’t get it”. No, I get it, I’m just not impressed. It’s a low-tech handheld with a gimmick. My gut feeling is that the novelty factor will wear of pretty quickly. This is completely unrelated to the fact that I’m impressed with the apparent production quality and marketing.

That's pretty funny, I never thought I'd be accused of peak HN :D

I meant it the way asveikau replied.

> but it's presented and marketed in a way that makes it interesting.

And I’m not even sure about that. At least the info on the link seems very scarce and the featured video was mostly a bunch of people talking and very little gameplay. I guess I’m not the target audience as this didn’t seem exciting to me at all. Couldn’t finish watching the video.

I disagree - the key innovation is that you buy the device, and get all the games included for free.

I think that consumers have grown weary of buying individual games, and would rather just pay a lump sum or subscription.

Yeah, this is going to go the way of the Ouya, but with even LESS success.

It's having exclusive games made for it by some pretty famous game developers. It has a unique input device. It looks and behaves like a modern gameboy. It will openly let you tinker and dev with it yourself. It's like a dream gameboy.

Looks blocky and uncomfortable to hold. Has a black and white screen with no backlight. Can't play Nintendo ROMS. Is a subscription service...

The marketing is flashy, but I have zero interest in this product.

The styling of this thing is beautiful. That said, is it too much to ask that they come up with their own original name for a device that is patently a solo experience instead of hijacking a term for humans interacting with each other in physical space?

I wonder how well the name will go over with wider audience. My first thought was is that some kind of dating service? Why is it on HN...

Humor me, why would this be interesting in any way shape or form? I can see this only being interested to people with fetishes for old LCD-based semi-disposable toys.

Subtract the word "only" and you've got it.

I suspect the market is there to enable modest success, for the same reason cassette labels flourished.

It's a big bet. Even in the modern era of low-cost pipelines from concept to fabrication, novel console devices are incredibly expensive and risky to bootstrap into life.

It looks amazing, but... why? I can't see myself spending more than 10 bucks on something like this. There are plenty of "vintage styled" games on Steam, getting a Raspberry Pi and putting it into a nice cover would be probably cheaper.

Nobody is buying this thing because it's cheap.

First, it's coming from Panic. They have enough fans that they can probably sell out the first run just on their reputation.

Secondly, the industrial design looks great or at least novel. For $180 you get a neat looking toy and are supporting the development of new stuff. $180 feels like a sustainable price.

It is a lot of money, but for many people on HN $180 is an easy impulse buy.

Oh, I thought I recognized that logo! The publishers for House House's "Untitled Goose Game."

It's a neat concept for a system, but a bit unfortunate that one can't play Untitled Goose Game on it.

They published Firewatch, too! In addition to being being highly respected (someone else in this thread used the word "legendary") Mac software developers.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com