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Comment by nabla9 | Hacker News Reader

'google: "SpaceX subsidies"

SpaceX gets almost $900 million in federal subsidies to deliver broadband to rural America https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/08/tech/spacex-starlink-subsidie...

SpaceX just won $885 million in federal subsidies to expand Starlink, Elon Musk's satellite-internet project https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/spacex-just-won-do...

In addition to that SpaceX is government contractor.

SpaceX and Blue Origin are the next Boeing/Lockheed. Government gives them both money to R&D so that they don't have just one innovative supplier.

Tesla is a great example of government project. Tesla has received $3-4 billion in subsidies.

edit:

SpaceX has received other direct subsidies. NASA has given seed money and development funding for Dragon, Falcon 9, engines and demonstration launches ($248M at least) https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes...

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> In addition to that SpaceX is government contractor.

It's important to note that SpaceX is different from most space-related government contractor in that they mostly sell a packaged service, whereas other contractors before it had development contracts. Boeing / ULA etc were paid to develop launchers, SpaceX sells launches. (I know that SpaceX benefited from subsidies towards achieving that, but their competitors did not achieve that or even tried.)

The key difference is that they are not (entirely) incentivized on sucking on the subsidies teats. That the US government pays them to provide a public service makes them more akin to any utility than to typical government contractors.

NASA has given seed money and development funding for Dragon, Falcon 9, engines and demonstration launches ($248M at least) https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/453605main_Commercial_Space_Minutes...

I think this is the same way as Boeing and others get their money for development.

The difference is that Boeing and others are financed the way a public works would be, like a bridge or highway. They thus have no incentive to get cheaper / more efficient once they get the contract, and in fact make more money the less efficient they are -- as long as the government doesn't tire of paying them. SpaceX gets development subsidies, like the others do, but they sell launches, not an ongoing project. As a result, the more efficient they are, the more profit they make.

United Launch Alliance (ULA), sells launches. ULA sells launches for Delta IV Heavy and Atlas V. ULA is Boeing/Lockheed joint venture.

Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, New Horizons, Starliner crew capsule ... basically all NASA and DoD launches come from ULA.

Are you suggesting $1.8M for expansion of Starlink to deliver broadband to rural America is not a net win? As someone in the midwest US, Starlink is the first realistic opportunity for many people I know to access broadband internet. My mother-in-law has had to teach from home all year using her cellphone as a hotspot because that's the best internet she could get no matter how much she payed.

I'm not suggesting.

People are engaged in heated normative[1] discussion with little or no facts. I am not. Even saying Tesla is a great example of a government project does not mean it's good or bad. Just a great example.

I just wanted to add some facts to the discussion. Not enough, but some. I think it would be great to find out the total indirect and direct subsidies these companies receive, but I could not find it.

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1: Normativity is the phenomenon in human societies of designating some actions or outcomes as good or desirable or permissible and others as bad or undesirable or impermissible.

I appreciate the information. I did not have an opinion on the matter until you provided context that the subsidies were specifically for StarLink.

We already paid companies to roll out copper to your area in the 90s, and they just didn't do it.

StarLink has already rolled out.

How are your speeds, horse?!

$900 million = 5 days of federal food stamps spending

$3-4 billion = 3 weeks of federal food stamps spending

I know which I think is the better government expenditure

Still a government handout to private corporation.

It's a country investing in infrastructure.

A hand out is bailing out failing auto makers, forgiving debt arbitrarily, etc, etc.

As a counterpoint, $900 million to get rural America actual broadband, where cable companies used similiar handouts to line their own pockets and do nothing...