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Comment by coding123 | Hacker News Reader

Just throwing this out there, but a lot of working class contractor type drive a RAM/Ford/Chevy 1 ton class diesel trucks with mega cab that typically runs in the neighborhood of 50-70k, so these people WILL transition to electric. I already know republican types in rural areas that even want to get the Cybertruck (even if it means looking like one of those rich types).

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My 3/4 ton gas pickup truck gets 8 miles per gallon towing 12 thousand pounds hundreds of miles a month. I blow through multiple Teslas worth of energy per drive. No way is this thing going to be replaced by anything even remotely resembling the lithium ion batteries of today. And even if such a magical thing existed, I would need to charge it somewhere at over 100 amps to be useful.

We need more nuclear power plants sequestering atmosphere carbon dioxide into liquid fuels. My job sites in rural counties lose power regularly in sunny calm wind conditions. I would be utterly helpless and stuck regularly if my vehicle strongly depended on the electrical grid.

Liquid fuels carry so much energy per liter I can store a massive amount of energy in a compact package. This is more important to me than pulling a 55 foot semi trailer filled to the brim with 18650s to have enough energy to tow. I cringe at the cost of lithium ion batteries to meet my energy requirements. God forbid those batteries freeze! Now my precious expensive batteries are destroyed.

We will see electric trucks in the near future on a very small subset of routes where reliable electrical connectivity is available.

The vast majority of non-commercial truck use is not towing or hauling. Just look at the pickups you see on the road. Most are just luxury vehicles at this point. Not much difference than a slightly more practical sportscar.

I would love for you cite your sources on this...

For Ford, the most popular Truck, 50-60% of Trucks are F150 XL, or XLT, the XL is the base work truck, the XLT as the common features but not level of luxury of the Lariat, or Platinum Trucks.

Was just my observation on the road in the Western USA. I think the stats you have include fleet and commercial which frequently buy the base models, I was just talking about non-commercial use.

Lots of the guys you see driving pickups without hauling might have boats or trailers which are normally at home but they tow from time to time and they need to be capable of doing that.

You can't own medium or larger sized boat or trailer if you don't have a truck to pull it with without jumping through massive hoops like borrowing, renting one, or putting together a dangerous contraption on a vehicle not legally rated to pulling that weight.

I agree there are many truck owners who do not work their trucks and they would benefit from an electric truck. But it is important not to over estimate this number. GMC/Chevy have been putting out a turbocharged four cylinder since 2019 for this crowd. I can't fathom spending so much money on a truck that can't tow much reliably. Funnily enough the V6 version gets better fuel economy on the highway by 1 MPG. These things really are limited by their terrible aerodynamics. That said, the shape of the regular pickup truck is a perfect use of space once you make use of every aspect of it, from cargo area, hitches, rear seat areas, to engine maintenance. I wouldn't want a different shape truck because it is very compact as-is.

I was thinking about this recently. If we had an efficient way to sequester atmospheric carbon at scale, particularly if it could be done in such a way that it was backwards compatible with existing gasoline and/or diesel engines (perhaps in a formulation with biofuels and/or other sustainably sourced fuels), wouldn't it be preferable to roll that out "overnight" rather than rely on replacing the majority of existing cars with electric alternatives? Maybe there would still be room for both if gas and electric have properties that are nice for different use cases, but at least you wouldn't have to significantly prefer one over the other for environmental reasons.

Further, wouldn't this essentially solve the storage problem with renewables? If the tech were easily scalable / didn't rely on any scare materials, it would essentially be a type of battery that could be used in combination with existing fossil fuel plants (and nuclear of course) for baseline load.

Which, now that I think about it, would actually make any kind of green new deal much more politically viable. If the fossil fuel plants and gas stations get to keep running, it's that much fewer jobs we're axing and hoping to replace with better alternatives.

https://prometheusfuels.com/

>> I already know republican types in rural areas that even want to get the Cybertruck

I call BS on that, of the many many many Truck owners I know maybe 10% have any interest in the Cybertruck... Of that 10% none of them use their truck for work or as an actual truck

The CyberTruck is targeting Late Gen X and Millennials the grew up with 80's and 90's movies with nostalgia, not a practical usable truck

Now the F150 Lightening that has about 60-70+% of the Truck Owners I know interested

Doesn't matter who you vote for if you can show up to a work site with a Diesel-Electric hybrid that has enough torque to unsafely tow a loaded semi trailer and power everything needed for the day. Truck manufacturers will figure it out over the next decade.

Next decade? Try next year. The F150 Lightning will absolutely dominate the fleet truck space if it comes anywhere close to delivering the promised specs.

Assuming they have where to charge it

Irrelevant for fleet trucks, which travel relatively short distances compared to commuter vehicles and always stay at the company yard overnight.

A large charging network is really only relevant to regular consumers, and even that is more of a psychological reassurance than a strict requirement given measured consumer behavior.

I mean that the company would have to wire their yard to charge a fleet. One charging station at home is one thing, but 25 sounds like a much bigger project from an infrastructure standpoint

I personally am not interested in the Cybertruck until it gets more mainstream. The thing is a target for every disgruntled driver who sees it in a parking lot. Telsa's already seem to be targeted frequently[0]. I don't need that kind of grief in my life.

0. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzpNC2zMAys (dramatic, but there are plenty more of these kinds of videos)

I planned on jumping straight to a diesel Prius.

That way both sides hate me.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0QXTKWBtke8

Nah, that's just boring. Go with a diesel Insight. There have been a few diesel swaps on the 1st gen Insights that manage the same or better fuel economy than the gas hybrid version.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/38291/this-2000-honda-insight-...

The Honda hybrid tech of that time is a lot easier to swap engines on. A Prius has the motors in the transmission, so it's harder to simply bolt a new engine on. You'd have to either drive the transaxle with your own control algorithms, or figure out another way to make it behave with a different engine. The Honda electric motor was on the engine crankshaft, and you could get the Insight with a manual transmission, so it's really just "bolt in the motor and go."

But of course you'd get a diesel Prius or Insight only to be "rolling coal" with it.

EDIT: Sorry, only watched the YouTube clip now -- OMG, seems that was the purpose! Sheesh, you think you're making an obviously absurd jokey take on something... America, you never (cease to) disappoint.

Anecdotally, macho gearhead types seem to generally respect the premise diesel-electrics, because freight trains. Because it's been so successful in locomotives, these sort see diesel-electric as proven, powerful, and sufficiently macho.

No, this is a good thing.

All Tesla's have cameras running on them nearly all the time. Any "disgruntled" driver who does any amount of various illegal things to them can easily be found and punished in the legal system. Quickest way to end the bullshit.

In Germany, this would probably end badly for the owner of the car doing the filming in a public space and the vandal would probably walk free with his/ her legal fees getting paid by the owner of the car, if the vandal would caught at all. It is illegal to monitor a public space and violates personality rights.

A reasonable judge might perhaps give the owner of the car a hefty fine for violating personal rights and order the vandal to pay for the damage. IANAL. Either way, I don't see it as a winning strategy to film anything in a public space in Germany, it will get you in trouble and will most likely not solve anything.

I think vandalism is the kind of thing that cannot be excused in adults. Certainly damaging anybody's car on purpose is something only a complete idiot would do.

It is illegal ? So when are they shutting down all those cameras in Berlin, apparently its the second most surveilled city in Europe after London: https://www.statista.com/chart/19268/most-surveilled-cities-...

After they've shut down the police for impersonating the police.

So these are all police cameras ?

Either that or people/entities surveiling their own ground.

I do not think that Tesla would be making a gigafactory in Germany if they were to make them disable a primary feature of the car.

I could be wrong. I don't know, but I've never heard of anybody bringing up this issue.

The German take on privacy in public spaces is obviously absurd and needs to be adjusted.

Honestly this happens to all cars and it's hardly evidence people target Tesla's more than any other brand.

Beware of getting your information from youtube.

The Cybertruck stands out. Things that stand out get targeted. I don't want my car to be targeted. It's that simple for me.

On paper I'm the type of person who ought to be interested in a cybertruck but I'm finding myself a lot more interested in the Ford F-150 Lightning.

Same here. Being in the UK means getting an F150 is pretty unlikely as I'd be worried about it fitting on some of our roads, but it is far more appealing than the cybertruck even for me as a soft, liberal tech worker.

When Tesla first introduced the cyber truck they were unsure about the demand and also unsure about the 4680 cell manufacturing. Both of these are now settled. It's not impossible that Tesla will drop the prices substantially when they finally go on sale.

Considering that they said 12-18 months more for volume 4680 production, I don't think that is settled yet.

Tesla wouldn't be using the 4680 in the model Y if the 4680's status was in doubt.

That's a pretty optimistic take given their past history with big shifts like this. Maybe they will start by using cells from their partners, though.

> I already know republican types in rural areas that even want to get the Cybertruck (even if it means looking like one of those rich types).

Not entirely on topic, but I'm curious whether their interest will shift to the electric Ford truck.

Anecdotally, I know someone who saw the Electric Hummer commercial during the Super Bowl earlier this year and it led him down a path that ended in him buying a Model Y a few weeks ago. Other players announcing vehicles that are years away from production is a net positive for Tesla sales. It's counter intuitive so not many people under stand that but it is definitely a thing from what I've observed. The mechanism is that you have these companies talking about electric vehicles which brings more attention to the coming change in technology and Tesla has a wider selection of best in class for the price electric vehicles than anyone else that you can buy right now and not wait.

I think the Ford electric F150 will sell like mad if it's reliable. Modern gas and diesel trucks are kinda a mechanical nightmare at this point. Used to be they were simpler than cars. Easy to work on. Now they are as complex. And as hard to work on as vans, of not more so. Means if anything goes wrong $$$.

Electric, more reliable, easier to work on. With the same or better performance.

If the early adopters have a good experience, everyone else is going to follow.

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