Hacker News Reader

Comment by kodah | Hacker News Reader

Thankfully this is a felony in at least some states now.

> My father told me a story of a man walking in a park one day when an unleashed dog walked up to him. The man took out his handgun and shot it.

Not a threatening dog, just a fucking dog walking up to somebody. This is a disgusting line of thought that anyone would take a life purely based on an animal approaching you.

It makes me question my involvement in a community where people are so unhinged they think taking out a gun and shooting someone's random dog is appropriate. How far we've come from To Kill a Mockingbird is astounding.

I think I am done with this place. What a disappointing thread.

View on HN

Why thankfully?

An unleashed dog comes up to you where its not supposed to.

- What are its intentions?

- Is it aggressive?

- Is it rabid?

Its no different than if a coyote came up and accosted you. Worse, because dogs are socialized not to fear man.

My neighbor had an aggressive dog (german shepherd) and every time my kid was outside in the backyard I made sure to carry a weapon to kill it if need be. It didn't really matter, my kid was too scared of it to play in the backyard.

I was planning on calling the city to have it destroyed but she moved out.

And for all you down voters... yes I talked to her. It was obvious talking with her where the dog got its attitude from.

You have effectively picked the worst sample of dogs, and established a standard that a human being may take a life based on that standard.

Dogs have tells too, and there's common ones that most dog owners will know:

- ears backed with tail tucked or quick wagging

- cowering / laying down (in a non-relaxed posture)

- deep growls and a leg spread defensive stance

And there's tells that occur far before the above. Dogs are domesticated animals (with millions of years of domestication, as opposed to cats), so comparing them in your head to a coyote is a false dichotomy from the get-go.

Your situation and GPs are very different. GP has specifically framed a dog that walked up to them off-leash. You are talking about having to potentially defend a child's life. There's a massive chasm between the two both legally and ethically.

I still have a (fading) scar on my calf from that one time I ran past some tables in a cafe as a toddler. I hold no ill will towards the dog that leapt out from under a table and sunk his jaws into my leg before the owners could even react. But let's be clear that big dog + unfamiliar small child is not about "can you read the tells".

Sure, it doesn't always work that way. Dogs are still animals and can be unpredictable. That does not rise to the level of shooting some stray or off-leash dog. I still have puncture marks in my hand from when I dislodged a sucker from my childhood dogs throat and he bit down.

Defending yourself and being a violent person are two different things. The man who shoots any off-leash or stray dog is just violent.

>Dogs are still animals and can be unpredictable.

Which is precisely why they must be on a leash, always. Except in a fenced off area maybe.

There are a lot of places that put on their website or Google maps that they're dog friendly and allow off-leash or on-leash visits. So "always" is not even near correct here, it is on a dog owner (and other visitors) to determine whether the place they're visiting is dog-friendly and to what degree.

??? If youre in an off leash park do what ever you want. No one is arguing that.

Im annoyed at the leash-less dogs in parks where dogs aren't even allowed. Although they're the least of my problems, a neighbor has a couple of pet pigs.

I'm guessing you missed the whole point of who I was replying to. They weren't defending anyone or talking about an aggressive dog, they were talking about a dog that walked up to a man and he shot it. That was the example. That is a by definition example of a sociopath, dog owners not putting their stupid dog on a leash is probably irresponsible or selfish, but not sociopathic.

I've already acknowledged there's nuance to the idea of being able to shoot a dog, much like there is to shooting a human. You were so desperate to argue your silly little point about defense that you forgot you, and some of the other folks here, are defending someone who shot a dog for no reason.

That's who you defended and voted for. That's what I was upset about.

I’m not a dog owner and it’s not my responsibility to determine the friendly unleashed dogs from the unfriendly ones. In an area where a leash is required, my assumption is they’re all unfriendly and their owners are all selfish idiots.

“Leash your fucking dog” is my go-to. “Are you selfish or stupid?” works, too.

The number of dog attacks that occur in the US every year suggest your “you can always avoid a dog attack” model is completely wrong.

I actually like dogs. Id be honored to have my BF entrust his dog to me for a few days.

But the onus is not on me to meet your pet half way, learn the species’ “tells” or pretend that there are no irresponsible owners.

The onus is on you.

Yeah, sure, I mentioned tells because having more information is better. The onus is on me to protect my dog from sociopaths who bring guns to shoot random dogs that walk up to them (as a reminder, that is the situation we're discussing apart from your "defense of a child" scenario)

Your dog comes up and sniffs me, fine. Slobber sucks but whatever.

But if it yelps, barks, gets territorial, bares his teeth, etc, the sociopath (ie unable to behave properly in society) is the dog owner who cant keep the dog on a leech.

> would take a life purely based on an animal approaching you

Which is it, an animal or a life? The phrase "take a life" implies some sort of value akin to that of a human life. If you want to elevate animals to that level, then acknowledge that you take a life when you slap a mosquito or step on an ant, yet I doubt you apply the same moralizing to anyone else who does so.

> It makes me question my involvement in a community where people are so unhinged they think taking out a gun and shooting someone's random dog is appropriate.

I think the key thing is that an off leash dog ceases to become "someone's random dog". It being "someone's dog" gives it value by being recognized as another person's property. Once off leash, relative to other people it's just a dog now; the owner has effectively abdicated responsibility of ownership for the dog by letting it off the leash. At that point it's not "someone's dog" any more than a bird with a FWS band is "someone's bird". Consequently treating it like any other animals is acceptable.

I say all of this as someone who loves dogs, and I even enjoy friendly dogs approaching me. But they 100% should be on leash and unable to approach me. I wouldn't blame someone for shooting a dog in the exact same circumstances.

> Once off leash, relative to other people it's just a dog now; the owner has effectively abdicated responsibility of ownership for the dog by letting it off the leash

Do you think it's okay to walk around and shoot strays? At least dog pounds in the US will make an attempt at a nonviolent death for a stray animal.

Let me be clear, it's not moralizing when it's ethically unsound to shoot a dog that does nothing else than walk up to you. When I chose "life" it's probably because I live with my dog. She has a personality, she has quirks, she learns from me and even teaches me things. If I saw her brains get blown out by some random dude because she walked up (and that was the framing) what am I in bounds to do? I can tell you, what I'm allowed to do would be of little consequence to me, because although that is just a dog to you, to me you took an animal that I know on a level deeper than I know most humans.

> At that point it's not "someone's dog" any more than a bird with a FWS band is "someone's bird". Consequently treating it like any other animals is acceptable.

Birds are not domesticated and we certainly treat domesticated animals differently in the context of the law and societal expectations. Dogs being the most and longest domesticated animal, whose behavior has been shaped and maintained over millions of years.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com