Is Poe the most influential American writer? A new book offers evidence | Hacker News Reader

Is Poe the most influential American writer? A new book offers evidence

washingtonpost.com

57 pointslermontov33 comments

"Before his death in 1849 at age 40, Poe largely created the modern short story, while also inventing or perfecting half the genres represented on the bestseller list, including the mystery ("The Murders in the Rue Morgue," "The Gold-Bug"), science fiction ("The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar," "The Conversation of Eiros and Charmion"), psychological suspense ("The Tell-Tale Heart," "The Cask of Amontillado") and, of course, gothic horror ("The Fall of the House of Usher," "The Masque of the Red Death," the incomparable "Ligeia")."

I love Poe, but whether he can be credited with inventing these genres is highly debatable.

On the origin of the mystery tale, Poe published "The Murders in the Rue Morgue" in 1841, and "The Gold-Bug" in 1843.

In 1819 ETA Hoffmann wrote "Mademoiselle de Scuderi".

To my knowledge, it was Hoffmann's work, written decades before Poe's, that was the prototypical detective story (featuring a female detective even!).

On the origin of the Gothic, Poe published "The Fall of the House of Usher" in 1839, "The Masque of the Red Death" in 1842, and "Ligeia" in 1838.

By then, the Gothic genre was well under way, with Horace Walpole having published the classic The Castle of Otranto in 1764. Ann Radclife (the mother of the Gothic) had published The Mysteries of Udolpho in 1794 and it was already parodied by Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey in 1817, long before Poe even started writing any of his Gothic fiction.

Science fiction has a very long history, and depending on how you define it could go back at least to the 2nd Century AD, with Lucian's A True Story (featuring travel to outer space, encounters with aliens, and interplanetary warfare), but if you didn't accept that as "true science fiction" there are plenty of other candidates which predate Poe, such as parts of the Arabian Nights (well over a thousand years old by the time Poe started writing), Gulliver's Travels (1726), Voltaire's Micromegas (1752), and of course Mary Shelley's Frankenstein (1818).

Yeah there’s a distinction between inventing and popularizing. Heck, there’s a detective story in the Bible - Susanna and the Elders in the Book of Daniel.

But you can certainly become identified with a genre by being famous for it - and Poe arguably was that.

I think it’d be fair to call him the Stephen King of his day.

On the singular scale of "influential," I think that maybe popularity matters more than whatever he "invented," but he was indeed very, very popular.

He invented his own Poe style, which I'm sure was influenced by whatever ideas people had about good stories at the time, but he brought his own interpretation to it. It sounds like people remember Poe's interpretations and those became stories that defined those genres, with a nod to whatever came before it.

How does one begin to measure an amorphous social, cultural, and memetic inflection due to a particular author without a control and without concrete evidence? To attempt to characterize trendsetters seems purely provincial and an anecdotal self-assessment based on biases and upbringing.

Furthermore, why can't a number of books and writers be similarly yet differently influential without a requirement of ranking them? Can't there be strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries?

There is value in 'ranking' things like books and authors: It may serve to emphasize a point someone is making about their relative importance or impact.

It's helpful to have some sort of comparison, even if they're imperfect or highly subjective (as historical observations often are). With a more cynical take, we can perhaps call it analytical clickbait.

There is no question that Poe is one of the most influential writers in American history. It's an impossible question to answer, and the fun of these discussions is in establishing the criteria for the comparison.

This article doesn't do that. It's just a list of Poe's impressive accomplishments.

However, if we want to talk about the most influential, we should also talk about the breath of their impact. I would give the nod to Twain but maybe Steinbeck or Thoreau would be in the running.

Thoughts? Criteria?

well there's a saying that when the Velvet Underground was around only a thousand people ever saw them (maybe it was a hundred, don't remember very well) but every one of those people went out to start a band.

So is Poe influential in the way of VU or influential in the way of Bob Dylan.

The article doesn't actually say, and doesn't make much of an argument for him being the most influential (what argument there is, is more hinted at then effectively made) but given the many things he did I suppose the influence is widespread like Dylan and not direct like VU. If so - I believe widespread influence generally requires quality as well - and the article won't argue that as to him being the greatest.

I believe that's a Brian Eno quote (about VU).

One could argue Iron Butterfly helped launch metal by bridging from psychedelic rock to their then new heavyness. I think most people might recognize In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida and assume they're a hippie, one-hit wonder.

The Guess Who and Frank Zappa were damn important too.

Btw, one of the most important locations for counterculture rock influence was the Hollywood Landmark Motor Hotel (today: The Highland Gardens Hotel). Jim Morrison, Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Janis Joplin (who lived and died there), and Alice Cooper were all there... oh and Shep Gordon.

Slightly off topic: Standard Ebooks published many of Poe's works:

https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/edgar-allan-poe

I’ve got a compilation of his poetry on my (long) production to-do list.

I enjoyed Poe as a teenager, but I won’t put him even in the top ten now. Maybe not in the top twenty.

Short stories are excellent fiction

I just started reading a book of Mark Twain’s “Short Stories and Tall Tales” I picked up on a whim at a used book sale and they’re all really quite enjoyable. I think The Danger of Lying in Bed[1] is my favorite so far.

[1]http://www.online-literature.com/twain/3261/

Poe was a big influence on Lovecraft, who died in poverty and obscurity but exploded in popular consciousness with the passage of time. In fact one can say that he has eclipsed Poe as his popularity continues to rise.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/quoteinvestigator.com/2016/03/0...

“Rock mythology has it that even though they were around only for a few years, everyone who went to a Velvet Underground concert went out and started a band.”

Several other versions of the quote exist there too. They all support the idea of the outsized influence of a small hyper loyal following. This is consistent with the 1000 (or 100) fans idea.

https://a16z.com/2020/02/06/100-true-fans/

Poe entered the general literary canon in Eastern Europe (where he is read, of course, in translation). Lovecraft, meanwhile, is not on the radar except for some genre readers.

I'm going with Declaration of Independence author Thomas Jefferson. If British when he started, American when he finished.

At that time, most Americans still saw themselves as British subjects. People weren't American once the Declaration was penned -- there was still a war to win.

If the 'most influential American writer' means 'the one most important to the US becoming its own country', then the answer is Thomas Paine. His American Crisis papers buttressed the flagging revolutionary movement and made the common folk actually care. Before Paine's propaganda, the majority of colonists saw themselves as British subjects and the fight for independence was only really supported by the landed gentry.

The American Crisis papers made the common folk care, and without them there likely isn't enough popular support to win the war.

Paine > Jefferson as pertains to the American cause (and Paine > Jefferson as person).

Tom Paine no doubt is the most influential because even Bob Dylan sings about him: ...

    Just then Tom Paine, himself
    Came running from across the field
    Shouting at this lovely girl
    And commanding her to yield

    And as she was letting go her grip
    Up Tom Paine did run
    "I'm sorry, sir", he said to me
    "I'm sorry for what she's done"

Ouch. Dylan: America's tough-but-fair national psychoanalyst.

In a sense we are comparing apples and oranges. How do we compare On Civil Disobedience? The book toppled the British without firing a single bullet. At this point we would have to consider different timelines altogether.

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