Amazon’s newest euphemism for overworked employees is ‘industrial athlete’
theverge.com
theverge.com
They kind of do? I get the point the article is trying to make, but they're just throwing everything at the wall to make that point, even when it doesn't really match reality.
> It’s little wonder then that reports continue to find Amazon’s comparatively high injury rates: Amazon’s warehouse workers had almost double the number of serious injuries compared to other warehouse workers in 2020, which is actually a “marked” improvement compared to the numbers from 2017, 2018, and 2019.
The article they quote says "the interpretation of the OSHA data used to classify a “serious” injury — which, in the various reports here, is defined as those that require time off or work reassignments — is skewed by what the company claims is more generous recovery time".
(I don't know whether this explanation even makes sense, though I feel it does. On an intuitive level, it feels to me that every logistics company probably overworks its employees; I don't see a reason to assume Amazon does anything that every other warehouse doesn't do. But maybe I'm wrong and Amazon is uniquely bad.)
But when they quote their own article, they get to skip the counter-claim (which the original article doesn't refute) and make it sound like their point is undisputed.
This is bad faith journalism.
my understanding is that Amazon does do something that others don't - that is to bring extremely advanced tracking and analytics to employee performance and activity. This is of course imported as a philosophy from its side as a technology company.
I'm sure smaller warehouses / companies would like to do what Amazon does but cannot because they do not have the size and expertise to do it.
The bad part then comes that in the past warehouse work has not been algorithmically optimized as it can be now. Imagine monitoring a machine very closely, pushing it ever closer to peak performance, as you push it parts start to wear out quicker but that is ok because your monitoring catches this wearing out of parts as it happens and replaces them as needed - no one cares after all if the parts are worn out quicker, what one cares if the wearing out of parts damages the performance of the machine and due to your much better monitoring of this machine the wearing out of parts never damages the machine.
Now take a step back and imagine the parts are human beings and the machine is Amazon.
On bad faith... I won't argue that it's in good faith, but it's about average relative to journalism generally and Amazon vs Labour specifically. Amazon's PR is not a whole lot more intellectually honest, and euphemisation is (to me) one of the most grating forms.
Being one of the worlds biggest companies that wants to eat everything and everyone (considering the verticals they are expanding into) surely would give them some reason to push their employees more than others. Some logistic companies are fine with their current size and quality, while others try to grow and satisfy their shareholders, that must have some impact on how the companies also treat their employees.
They hire anyone, but the "weak" get weeded out pretty fast, so only those who can sustain the rather high workload continue working there.
And tbh, everyone is built differently, some can take much more physical abuse and pain without breaking a sweat, others break down and get depressed.
I'm in the latter category, I sometimes (used to be a lot) complain about my knees and back, but then I see others with healed broken legs and arms still working, limping but doing their hard job. And I think, well, fuck me, maybe I should shut up.
Still, it would be great if companies wouldn't push people to the limit. We have one life, let everyone enjoy it as best as they can.
I didn't even blink at seeing this article. It tracks with the whole Amazon concept, very closely.
Is there a MORAL reason for doing this? Only if you think there's some special merit in celebrating that state of human existence beyond all other ways to be, and outside of any larger systems thinking. It would work nicely in Dalek World, where it's moral to exterminate all failed humans.
In 'evolutionary world' where we draw a lot of innovation and originality from integrating unexpected viewpoints and novel ideas, the Amazon thing is a quick road to starving your gene pool of anything useful. They're actively making other, less efficient forms of human employment unsustainable, rather than just unprofitable.
This is literally what a successful market looks like: a small number of much richer people at the top, and a giant pile of damaged and discarded people at the bottom.
Its a bit like the protestors against Mc Donalds.
And I do wonder if Amazon might have stricter reporting when compared to smaller industrial sites who might hide acidents.
They do not. A trainer's main goal is to keep an athlete healthy and capable of performing. In fact, rather than discard an injured athlete, they do the opposite: work with them to get them back to the best possible performance level.
Gymnastics is where the abuse is the most notorious, but it happens everywhere.
I'm not sure how this comparison is "ridiculous". I think the analogy for players on team sports is more apt. There are parallels.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6603920/
https://www.startribune.com/fleeting-glory-bodies-past-repai...
et al
Is it too much to ask for them not to treat their employees like slaves? Is it too much to ask for an eight hour work day? Actual bathroom breaks (I read their forklift drivers pee in bottles because they aren’t allowed to take appropriate bathroom breaks). All while paying them what they’re actually worth, given the work they’re doing and the level of stress Amazon puts them under?
Lopsided power arrangements will always be grossly unfair to one side and generous the other. In this case it's Amazon vs the Precariat. Moreover, the two sides (and everyone else) will always have a very different idea about what is fair.
The best way to address this without directly getting into the vast grey-area of "what is fair" is to limit the political power of corporations and then address labor laws and union formation.
The sad thing is we've been through this before.
There's a reason labor unions came into being. Do we really have to wait until labor conditions for workers become the 21st century equivalent of Industrial Age steel mills run by robber-barrons? Can't we learn from history?
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precariat > In sociology and economics, the precariat (/prɪˈkɛəriət/) is a neologism for a social class formed by people suffering from precarity, which means existing without predictability or security, affecting material or psychological welfare.
The way things are going I expect the social safety net to be cut out from under me by the time I hit retirement.
This article at la Wik can tell you more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_value
It absolutely means nothing because there is a queue of people that are desperate to accept any job. If you decide to ask for a higher salary then someone more desperate than you will take the job.
The paperclip maximiser algorithm doesn't actually require a computer, it could run just fine on a group of humans implemented as their set of intraorganizational rules.
2) Obviously if you can find workers for your compensation level that's some market definition of worth.
But I would also argue that ones society is broken if there are people who stay at a job where they have to resort to peeing in bottles because (ostensibly) they don't feel that taking 3 minutes to go to the bathroom is possible.
> little booths into their warehouses to try and improve mental health
If these are anything like toilets, they’d do wonders for my mental health.
Of course it would be more helpful if they actually were toilets (re: bathroom breaks)
It is true that they have a pretty decent healthcare package as far as warehouse work goes.
But the #1 lesson from both had not been to work nonstop and burn yourself out, rather it’s to take regular breaks, slack off, and go easy on yourself. If you’re in a punishing situation, you won’t want to get back on the horse for the next big push.
Trainers recognize too that rest and recovery are important. I ran 6 miles Sunday, 2-3 throughout l, and am not running today.
1. Relaxed and unconstrained by other obligations, whereby I can creatively follow the course of the work rather than trying to jigsaw it into an itinerary that balances several other tasks, or
2. Such extreme time pressure that I get into "the zone."
Your comment touches on #1 but there is something to be said for the power of last-minute panic.
[1] There are a very small few that continue to be effective under pressure. They are worth much more than Amazon is willing to pay.
https://video-images.vice.com/_uncategorized/1622578816840-a...*
https://video-images.vice.com/_uncategorized/1622578795816-a...*
My opinion:
The pamphlet is tone-deaf in light of the worker abuses at Amazon, but otherwise it's fine. It contains sound advice for staying healthy and uninjured while doing what is a physical job. It emphasises health, and not all-out performance. It contains useful information, like a bullet point about Amazon's program that gives employees a credit that can be used for buying shoes. It's not significantly different from the advice given by posture coaches and dieticians that have been brought into places I've worked as a software developer. Employers want their employees to be healthy and performant. These health initiatives are not altruistic, but also not evil.
If y’all know any Gen Z people, the generational hallmark is nihilism. Their humor is dark. There are good reasons for this.
We're not running out of humans any time soon. In fact, humanity is a plague.
I’m just pointing out that this is not a position that everyone would automatically find themselves in.
Good point. Thx. My english is kind of negligent.
I'm sure amazon would be terrified if a bunch of people with zero income stopped buying their goods.
/s
I'm interested in hearing what you are currently doing that is not "modern wage-slave-holder". Full time employee at any company would be "wage-slaving" and even being a freelancer is slaving for wage as well.
OK, where are the coaches & trainers, the practice & drills, the skill-building, all focused on exceptionally intense competition events that often result in a flow state?
Where are the rest & travel days after the competition?
Where are the cheering crowds & high salaries for the best? Or at least the acclaim for those who show top performance in the more obscure sports?
I've seen Industrial Athletes - a great example is the engine-building competitions at some auto racing trade events. Those guys go from a table of parts to a running 500+hp engine in 20 minutes - its amazing to see!
But they don't do that every day.
And, having competed at international levels and worked in physically demanding jobs, I've thought about the possibility of assembling high-performance worker teams. The problem is that it isn't economically sustainable. There are very few real-world situations where fewer people working faster really is required, and the extra pay and rest days required for even 80% athletic level performance makes it almost always better to just hire more and work them at a sustainable pace.
And sure, using a few tips from athletes such as staying hydrated is good, but trying to trick them into seeing themselves as "industrial athletes", without providing the support (like even bathroom breaks) is disgusting.
Life at the bottom sucks and if you're a middle class person with parents who payed for your college education thank God you will never know.
I think these people, many of whom grew up upper middle class, genuinely can’t understand why people would take a job that’s difficult - just see their treatment of military vets and police offers.
In short, they wouldn't be sued by govs if it was just people being hypocriyical.
Saying “thank god you’ve never done hard physical labor” seems like a very elitist thing to say.
Based? Neutral? "Not black and white mindset"? Avoiding outrage? Using the tools provided to you even though you don't like them?
Not sure, but I don't think we need to see people who have this view and perform those actions as hypocrites or whatever.
I don't like the capitalistic system we have today, but I do participate in it and exploit what I can in order to help me and others close around me. I could spend time trying to go against it, but ultimately that would make things worse for me and my closest, at least in the short-term.
It mostly boils down to the ability hire labor abroad which creates a minimum level of skill needed to compete in the US labor market. In theory companies would train their workers to reach that minimum level because they would earn more in aggregate, in practice companies pick cherries and hope that the rest educate themselves.
Being able to choose not to order from Amazon is a massive privilege that most in the middle class do not have if they want to maintain something akin to a normal life. It takes a considerable expenditure of time, effort, and money, and will have effectively zero impact on Amazon.
Even fairly widespread organized temporary boycotts have not made more than a blip for them, because they're just too goddamn big. The only remedies that will work against Amazon are government-level, not individuals either on their own or in organized groups smaller than at least a state government.
Most people on HackerNews, with incomes well above the national median, and often sources of passive income that earn above the national median income, are thus privileged. Many, many more people are not, and to decide that what is not hard for you is not hard for anyone is a conclusion without merit.
It seems to me that Amazon is trying to set the expectation that their warehouse jobs are physically demanding. Other physically demanding jobs/industries are: the military, construction, landscaping, firefighting, fitness trainers, farmers, dancers, etc...
Workers in those fields aren't necessarily given time to nap, and "don't have professional nutritionists and / or chefs taking care of their dietary needs." Of course most employers in those fields don't call their workers "athletes", but most athletes outside of professional sports have perks like naps and nutritionists. I think a lot of amateur athletes have jobs, and practice and compete in their free time.
That's their whole shtick and a main part of their competitive advantage. By process-ifying everything they can use the cheapest, crappiest parts of the labor pool and still get good results. The operations that haven't abstracted away the need for employees to think somewhat about what they're doing either need to hire better labor or put up with lesser results.
Yes mindfulness etc, but it just doesn't come across as genuine.
Among the pros and cons of mindfulness, the biggest negative they find is that it’s a great way to turn your employees into more efficient cogs.
I feel this way about every company that tries to teach their employees about mindfulness (lots of FAANGs do this as well)… they want you to be able to de-stress, not because they care about your well-being, but because they want to increase your tolerance for stress, and thus your expected productivity.
You no longer need to do all this crap to look sophisticated in front of your co-workers, you can just, say, pick your nose and contemplate on the gradual change in texture as you rub it between your thumb and index finger.
I'm all for mindfulness, but you don't need any fancy techniques or rituals, and you most certainly don't need to pay a subscription for it.
In other words, it is deeply unsettling cult behavior.
Humans are basically made for walking. I think there’s a lot of bad things about Amazon, but making their warehouse workers walk is not one of them.
What would that factor be? A clue might be in the "400 calories per hour" number also mentioned in the story. That's nearly 7km/h at average (male) weight, or 56km equivalent during a shift. Would you feel comfortable walking 40% faster for 60% longer? Every day? It doesn't get that much easier.
Appalachian Trail through-hikers would consider 35km to be a good day. I can cover 20km in under two hours, not five, but if I did that every day I'd be seriously over-training and probably headed for an overuse injury. Requiring even half that level of daily effort for people who are not in their twenties any more, who are sleep deprived due to non-work (or other-work) demands, or who already have one or more other injuries or chronic conditions, really is a bit problematic.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160109195713/http://strongarmt...
The connotation has generally been positive and was a created by the staff trying to improve safety and reduce injuries.
This is why I am in support of unions in general.
Legal corporate tax breaks are used to encourage incentives that we (as a society) want. We can and should continually monitor and tweak them, but as a concept they are not inherently bad - I mean, Amazon is now this enormous beast, but it's also an enormous beast that created over a million jobs.
I wonder if, like Uber is doing with transport, Amazon is scaffolding their warehouse processes so that it will be an easier transition when the day comes to replace all the wetware with robots.
There have got to be some sick people who enjoy this sort of thing.
Any sort of large company that employs actual slave labor through the American prison system has a dark character about it. Amazon, Walmart, Microsoft, and similar modern corporate giants.