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Comment by KozmoNau7 | Hacker News Reader

I have a hard time taking your recommendation seriously, unless you have never heard a good set of speakers in person.

A pair of JBL 305P MkIIs will absolutely wipe the floor with discount speakers like those, with such a huge margin, that it's not even remotely fair.

$300 for a pair, certain a lot less than 100x price difference.

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You have not heard those, they absolutely do sound more precise than cheap studio monitors. I think they may actually be flat with both bass and treble all the way down, but then they just don't sound like loudspeakers at all.

I have a very hard time believing that, especially considering the absolutely miniscule woofers, no tweeters and tiny cabinets. The marketing focuses mostly on "cool led lights" and "fashion design". Claiming that they sound better than studio monitors is an extraordinary claim, and there doesn't seem to be any sort of reviews available, and the only videos on Youtube are from people who bought them and basically go "yes, these make sound". Not a single actual review.

The JBLs are some of the most well-regarded studio monitors, routinely besting competitors at four times the price. They are JBL's crowning achievement in sheer performance per dollar, no joke.

I can only conclude that you have literally never heard a decent set of speakers in your life, or you're wasting everyone's time with an extremely low-effort troll.

I understand your disbelief. I was also in disbelief as I expected the speakers to be a joke and wouldn't believe it if I didn't hear it myself. But they are as much above cheap studio monitors as the monitors are above regular hifi speakers. I guess there is some DSP magic at play, but they realy sound that good. Really the only way we could resolve this issue is that you waste $30 and listen for yourself.

No, you can't change the laws of physics, especially not with miniscule cabinets, a single 3" woofer, two 1.5" midrange drivers and a paltry ~10W of total amplification. It simply isn't physically possible, no matter how much DSP "magic" you throw at it.

If you're genuinely serious and believe these tiny speakers are truly amazing, please do spend the $30 yourself and send a set to Amir at audiosciencereview.com, so he can put them through the same set of tests and measurements that he uses for HiFi speakers and studio monitors. He doesn't mince words, he will rip apart manufacturer claims if they don't deliver on them, even if they're a well-regarded brand.

It can reduce the distortion which is what really matters more than frequency balance. The problem as I understand it is the equal loudness curves. The bass itself may be perceived possibly tens of dB quieter in relation to the distortion which occurs an octave or more above the original frequency, so that the perceived distortion is amplified. The measurement should be multiplied by the loudness curves, which shows the trully horrible distortion at bass, which pollutes the sound way up into the mids. Even at that site you can read statements like "below 100Hz, 10% [harmonic distortion] is OK", which just isn't true.

All I can see is that he lives in Seattle, and I don't really care that much.

I'd love to see the sources you base your claims on, since you seem to disagree with respected professionals like Floyd Toole and Sean Olive, as well as every sound engineer employed by pro audio companies. Extensive research and listening tests have shown that a linear frequency response with a slight roll-off towards high frequencies and a slight low-frequency boost, combined with even dispersion and low distortion is preferred by the vast majority of listeners. You need all of the elements together, in order to achieve a pleasing presentation. This is the groundwork and design philosphy of a speaker like the JBL 305P MkII, and it works, based on solid repeatable science.

Please provide your research or the sources you base your conclusions on.

You cannot get low-distortion bass at any usable volume out of a 3" speaker in a small cabinet, no matter how much DSP trickery you add, it is physically impossible. The driver simply doesn't have enough membrane area nor excursion to move the required amount of air. On top of this, the type of DSP tricks you are proposing require significant additional amplifier power and heavy-duty speaker drivers that can withstand it. Even then, what you're going to get is massive amounts of distortion, especially as the driver tries to reproduce anything under 150Hz at any sort of volume.

From my experience in hifi and electronics, what they're probably doing is using an off-the-shelf BT+amplifier module, with standard low-power amplifier modules. On top of this there is probably some standard EQ and maybe a "bass enhancer" module of the sort that generates overtones based on low bass frequencies, which uses the "missing fundamental" principle to fool the ear into perceiving bass that is too deep for the speaker to actually reproduce. Some bluetooth speakers make good use of this trick, but it is very much adding a bunch distortion in order to fool your ears.

I'm glad you like your speakers, but you are utterly delusional if you think they offer sound quality that is even on the same planet as a decent set of studio monitors.

The problem is that you seem to be assuming I like them for the opposite reason why I do, so I guess you will just need to listen for yourself.

I think they might actually be doing the opposite of what you suggest - they generate overtones that cancel out the overtones produced by the speaker itself.

I have been listening on studio monitors for years, as I prefer the sound over the typical consumer audio sound.

Sure, they won't shatter your room, and they are really only powerful enough for listening from close distance, but the thing is how the bass sounds like real bass, rather than loudspeaker bass, it sort of adds weight to other sounds, rather than being directly heard and the whole sound often almost sounds like if it wasn't coming out of speakers.

You claimed that those speakers had more accurate sound, clarity and bass reproduction than a set of studio monitors costing 100x as much.

That sort of statement needs to be backed up by serious, verifiable facts.

So please go right ahead and back up your extraordinary claims with some verifiable proof. Distortion measurements would be a good start.

As I previously mentioned, Amir at audiosciencereview.com has the necessary tools for thorough speaker measurements, and he accepts shipment of speakers for testing.

I said it would cost 100 times as much to match the clarity. I told you you need to investigate it yourself as I have no way to convey that information over the internet. They just sound very clear, detailed and precise. The 0.5% claim seems quite believable after you listen to them. They are small, but with low distortion.

Then tell that Amir guy to test them. I don't know him.

> " said it would cost 100 times as much to match the clarity."

Based on what, exactly? Do you have any sort of verifiable information to back up that claim?

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you are making some very extraordinary claims. You seem to be very firm in your beliefs, but completely unmotivated to actually put them to the test.

Do you really honestly and seriously believe that a $25 set of gimmick speakers can match a set of $2500 studio monitors for sound quality, on even a single performance parameter, let alone overall clarity and low distortion?

I can only conclude that you are utterly delusional and that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, which a cursory glance at your comment history confirms.

Based on comparing them with studio monitors. They sound more like good headphones or not like speakers at all. They can play string bass. The drums sound unamplified on good enough recordings. There is no doubt that their distortion is extraordinarily low, and it's not the distortion of the amplifier but the speakers. I don't know how you expect me to prove it to you.

> "I don't know how you expect me to prove it to you."

By providing objective measurements, as I have written in multiple previous comments already.

If you do not have measurements at hand, or the necessary gear to undertake them yourself, Amir at audiosciencereview.com has the gear, skills and experience to perform in-depth detailed speaker measurements. He accepts speakers shipped to him for review.

It's not very complicated: You made claims of extraordinary performance from outrageously cheap speakers. I ask you to provide evidence of this very hard to believe claim, and I even provide you a way of doing this.

Of course, Occam's Razor says you're just full of BS, which is a perfectly fine conclusion for me.

They can play the kick drum without any noticeable accompanying "dunnn" sound, which is enough to tell that their distortion must be extraordinarily low. In fact the people who said they "yes, they make sound" may dislike them for their dryness. Occams razor has nothing to do with that, as your phone screen has better image quality than the best TV screens a few decades ago. And that is my last reply, do it yourself if you care about measurements, you'd probably say I faked them anyway.

Maybe they have MQA in them though. That changes everything. /s

I don't believe you. Measure them.

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