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Comment by jdlyga | Hacker News Reader

This removes one of the annoyances that kept me from switching back to Firefox. They've actually been doing a decent job lately. I'm back using Firefox for the time being.

Recent Annoyances Fixed:

1) too slow

1) no default global zoom

2) can't type a site and tab to search

3) cluttered ui, with features too many clicks deep

4) pocket is too in your face and takes too many steps to turn off

Remaining Annoyances:

1) no chrome-like tab groups

2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click

3) middle clicking on bookmark toolbar items opens them in the foreground, not background

4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome

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OTOH, this is taking away one of the few features still keeping me on Firefox - a separate search bar.

At this point, I increasingly can't differentiate Firefox from Chrome or Edge, which are better supported anyway.

Decisions based on "user data" have been a disaster for Firefox. The only reason any normal person ever used Firefox is because power users evangelized it - they don't get to be the default, pre-installed browser anywhere, and they don't have the world's biggest web properties constantly pushing for them. Power users are it. Obviously, the data will always reflect that any set of power user features is used only by a tiny amount of people.

But everything Mozilla has done in the past few years has been done to alienate power users and appeal to the non-existent normal user who goes out and downloads another browser. At this point with this redesign I'm basically done. If Firefox wants to be Chrome or Edge, I'm just going to use Chrome or Edge.

If a little redesign makes you move to Chrome, what exactly was stopping you?

Mostly inertia. I’ve been using it since 1.0.

There’s been a trickle of changes over the years going in this direction. This was just the last straw. It’s becoming increasingly Less useful to me.

I don’t like Chrome but it’s better supported and it and Edge are more widely available by default. There’s simply no advantage anymore to using Firefox.

I’m the kind of guy that installs Firefox on everyone’s computer when they ask me to “fix” it and that recommends it to them. But their whole strategy has turned me off. And it won’t gain them any other market share either.

Hi! Not sponsored or anything, but if you want a separate search bar, Vivaldi (vivaldi.com) has that. Just thought it might help.

If you want a separate search bar you go to the firefox customisation page (same page as all other firefox customisations) and literally drag and drop the search bar back into the header

Oh, look -- still there! Thanks!

> "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click

Always thought that was a security thing, so you can’t be tricked to download a file you may not want.

Separately, I do wish FF had “Save As” for downloads. Right Click and “Save Link As” is not compatible with all downloads.

> Separately, I do wish FF had “Save As” for downloads. Right Click and “Save Link As” is not compatible with all downloads.

about:preferences, Files and Applications, Downloads, Always ask you where to save files

1) no chrome-like tab groups

I like Tree Style Tabs and I've heard good things about Sidebery.

2) "save file" is greyed out when you download a file, requires an extra click

This makes me feel old. I remember back when this was added and some of why. (Used to be bad malware that would try to auto-download stuff back in the dialup eras where you couldn't afford to download stuff you didn't mean to download.) It's less useful today and been a while since some of those worst malware programs like that have existed or been seen as much in the wild. But even knowing it is mostly theater at this point I still have this "comfort" in the added safety of that "extra click". (And I have never liked Chrome's download anything and everything automatically by default approach.)

4) still feels like it's playing catchup to chrome

The other perspective is: Chrome maybe needs to stop running so far out ahead of all the standards work. Now more than ever with such a huge percentage of the web audience, Chrome should maybe take some responsibility and slow down for the sake of better web standards. As a web developer I know that I still take seriously "if it doesn't work yet in Firefox it is too soon to safely depend on it", but I'm an old (as established above).

I wouldn't describe running as Chrome running so far ahead. Some of it is ahead, and some of it is off to the side, into some swamps and sinkholes that are not a good idea to go into.

Or to switch the metaphor slightly, Chrome is like a ship saying "hey, our hull is strong enough to go bump into that iceberg over there! I bet there are people who would love to get onto it. Let's give it a try!"

[I am a Mozilla employee, and biased.]

I'm not actually opposed to getting some of that functionality, but not until there is some kind of believable restricted-access story that makes it very clear what the user is agreeing to. Permission prompts that train us to ignore them are not that thing. Wording that only talks about the benefits of allowing things are not that either. I haven't seen anything particularly serious in this direction. (It's a hard problem. Users wildly underestimate probability of abuse and harm, especially when it makes total sense for a specific person but not for the other hundred million.)

The save file thing is for security so you don't accidentally hit enter to download something you don't want.

You should be able to change that by going to about:config, searching security.dialog_enable_delay, and double clicking. You could also try changing your preferences to tell Firefox to always save to some location

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