You can allmost call it youth culture, most kids go through, before becoming adults. In my late teenage years, it was common and expected on parties to drink, until you have fun, who can drink the most (and puke afterwards), etc.
Most people, like myself, had enough of this after some time and matured - but I know too many people, where the booze and beer stayed with them.
Yes, exactly, this is "kids being kids", we all go through a period of our life where we do stupid shit, related to drugs or other "extreme" things where risks of hurting ourselves is probably higher than the reward, but it's fun so why not?
But then we grow up and change in "proper" adults.
I think when we talk about "binge drinking" it's important to understand the context. While talking about stupid teenagers is fun sometimes, when it comes to if a country has a problem with binge drinking or not, we should probably restrict the conversation to binge drinking with adults, not teenagers who do stuff they most likely won't do when they are adults. As you said, most people eventually do grow up and adjust accordingly.
Binge drinking and other drugs consumption are very serious youth problems leading to lifelong health issues or even death.
I'm also pretty sure there is a correlation between youth and adult consumption.
Finally, Germany has a higher alcohol consumption per year per person than the USA
The point is that youths do risky things; it's a normal part of growing up, and is how you learn about risk and responsibility. Youth binge drinking shouldn't be seen as separate from youths just doing risky things because that's what youths do, else you'll come up with "solutions" that don't address the real issue and fail to solve anything at all.
It's fair enough to say that someone who parties a lot in their early twenties, but doesn't hurt anyone else or themselves too seriously, then grows out of it and lives an upstanding life is not a major problem, whereas someone who continues to drink excessively and destructively when they're older and needing to be responsible is a problem.
And sure, they're somewhat related, but not so much so that they should be considered one and the same, when the underlying causes are usually very different.
Like banning flavored vapes! This was my argument, kids being kids, talk and explain to them why what they’re doing is damaging. Nobody accepted it for that argument, why are people accepting it for this one?
And kids doing crazy stuff is one thing ... but another one is to have a culture around it, that endorses it. Because like I said, I know too many who got a regular drinking habit, out of those stupid blackout drinking sessions back then. I very much do believe that germany has a drinking problem, too, to where the roots are the youth. With 14, a buddy of mine won a full bottle of wine at a winefestival, they just handed over to us. Which was the first time I puked from it. Amazing. Technical illegal to give to minors even back then, but common practice in some areas. Because they all celebrate the drinking.
The US has open container laws but they primarily exist for a pretense to arrest people for being disorderly, in my experience.
Edit: The person I’m responding to isn’t even in the US how is what they are saying more valid then my actual life experiences in the US?
Most places I know of in the U.S. if you're walking down the street and a cop sees you with a beer, they'll make an issue about it. The thing is, it's not always super obvious, and they don't bother to look too close usually if they don't have a reason to. I don't think this is the case in poorer communities. Not only are the police more likely to be looking closer, but the situation of the people involved sometimes means they're more likely to be outside in a shared location instead of inside (smaller dwellings, shared living, etc), and open container laws are used to exert control over this populace.
Put in much simpler terms, I wouldn't be too afraid of walking down my street with an open beer if I felt like it, because police driving down the street are rare and unlikely to decide I'm an issue. I neither of those things are true to the same degree just 4-5 blocks away from me though, and I wouldn't want to risk my luck doing the same thing on a street there.
Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.
I didn't say that. I said it's a law applied unevenly, as I see it.
> Where’s your evidence for any of this?
I stated an observation based on my own experience, and why I believe it. The evidence for my belief is my own observations, which were explained.
> In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.
Parks and beaches will be policed differently, as public gathering places. I wasn't talking about those, even if the comment I was replying to was, I was referring to the more general topic of open containers in public in general, which is why I mentioned my street and a street a few blocks away.
It's obvious you have strong feelings on this topic (or another topic that you want this to stand in for), from both the way you approached the conversation and how you pigeonholed my statement into some other narrative that it wasn't intended to apply to. I've done my best to ignore the aggressive tone and re-framing of my point, but perhaps that approach isn't a useful strategy for productive discussion, if that's what you're actually going for?
What I'm going for is a stop to the race baiting. You have no evidence, just "feels", and we're now supposed to change society as a result. Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts. Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?
Let me spell it out for you, since apparently the actual content of my original comment and my note about how you seemed to be viewing it as "another topic that you want this to stand in for" were not clear enough:
I said nothing about race. I wasn't intending to say anything about race. I wasn't using poor as a stand in for some minority. I was making a case for poor communities, of any color. Honestly, your response makes no sense. Given I expressed how I thought I would be treated differently based on the area I was in (that was the only difference in my comparison), no matter what race you assume I am, I clearly wasn't basing the comparison on race. Because I wasn't making a case about race, but about class.
> Where's the science? Or are you not interested in actually solving problems just creating more?
I wasn't presenting facts. I was presenting experiential testimony, very clearly as opinion, in case that made people think about the issue in a bit more depth. If I was presenting factual evidence, I would have looked up and presented that evident as references. I stand by my track record of doing this, and requesting it when people make factual assertions.
> Racism has started increasing because people like you are going around expressing opinions with no facts.
Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are. That's very meta.
Good. That’s clear now.
> Really? That's an interesting observation coming from someone that just took a discussion that wasn't about race and decided to not only assume it was about race, but then inject their opinion about how that makes it wrong because there's no evidence that racism is the problem, and how in fact racism isn't on the rise, people assuming that about racism are.
Yes finding racism (or insinuating like you’ve done here) where there is none is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own!
I'm not insinuating I've found racism. I'm insinuating that you making a conversation about race that wasn't about it originally is ironic as it's doing the same thing you complained about. You "felt" that I was talking about race and decided to make a dismissive comment because of that. Because of what you "felt" about my comment, because it surely wasn't based on what my comment actually said.
If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted. This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist (I feel compelled to spell this out, as past experience in this conversation with you leads me to believe you will think that's what I'm trying to say), but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views.
> ... is turning non racist people racist. And that’s not opinion, you can go learn that in on your own!
So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did?
Hey great, I don't really believe you though. Especially not with all the association with poor being a race thing. Some groups are tired of the racist conversation already. Some people have moved onto calling it other things so the conversation still happens. If you're not one of them, great! It's very unlikely you will convince me however, given that you'd be a bit of an outlier speaking quite literally.
> If you believe people making issues about race that aren't really about race is part of the cause of a rise in racism, a bit of introspection on your own approach's contribution to that problem might be warranted.
Please tell me on what I need to introspect on?
> This doesn't mean I'm calling you racist...
Oh I'm quite comfortable with my lack of racism, so nothing you can say would carry any weight. Sorry I felt compelled to spell that out.
> but that your actions may be causing the the same harm they are intended to critique, regardless of your views.
What harm am I causing exactly?
> So, something stated as fact (specifically noted as not opinion no less), and no reference provided. Do you truly not understand the difference to what I did?
I mean I just did what you did no?
> Poor communities? Really? People are oppressing others “right” to drink now? Where’s your evidence for any of this? In my “rich” neighborhood cops stop people all the time for drinks in the park or glass bottles on the beach.
I often trick myself into thinking that things that I have learned are well understood by society. But maybe not.
Example: I was stopped for non-working taillights when I was a late teen. I was let go with a warning. I was also a white kid driving an unsuspecting handmedown car in the “wealthier” part of town.
It’s easy to imagine a similar stop being leveraged to search a car and fish for drugs or other “criminal behavior” if I was a different race in a rough neighborhood with a lot of street crime.
Spoiler: I had a joint in the biblebelt and it was ~1999-2000. I could have been arrested for sure.
I'm sure I can drink a wine in the park with my wife too, now that I'm old. Doesn't make it OK the way the police treat the young and/or brown.
And no, for what it's worth, it's not as bad in the US as it is here, because Americans (generally) respect the freedoms of others much more than Australians do. Which is why in my experience the subsequent dickheaddery isn't as prevalent or extreme there either.
Access to alcohol is a separate thing altogether, and is freely available depending on county and state, but, in the areas where the majority of Americans live (ie, not Utah, or similar), it's very easy to get alcohol and it's not seen as a bad thing.
The issue is that the US is so large and disparate that everyone's experience will be slightly different, and, no offense, but your opinion of drinking culture in the US seems off base and I get the sense you don't know what you're talking about.
In CA at least, drinking at most beaches is not legal: https://beachlifeexpert.com/beaches/alcohol-guide-california...
In the US, you have to be sneaky about it and you're always one bored cop away from trouble.
Oh that’s rich. A certain political party’s primary goal seems to control and reduce freedoms.
Also what evidence do you have that “brown” people are targeted more than others?
I tried to engage with you upthread assuming positive intent. This comment seems like deliberate baiting and I don’t think it’s the least bit authentic. I don’t think there’s any question that non-white people in America are selectively policed more than white people except by those arguing in bad faith.
Further, public drinking is all but restricted to destitutes outside of NYE and Aus day.
Contrast that with Germany. Every two blocks there's a Späti, many open 20–24h daily, each selling beer, wine, and spirits, at all hours of the day. You'll find hordes drinking in the streets, parks, and riversides anytime weather permits. It isn't unusual to see people sharing a beer on the U-bahn on the way to the work.
One culture demonises (although indulges in) alcohol, the other embraces it.
And yes, in general I 100% agree with the local policy that beer is free to buy and consume from age 16. The majority of people (I know) start drinking responsibly by age 20-25 and from the stories I heard from other countries there are quite a few less hospital visits involved.
That is because that is only place to buy anything. You wont buy bread in small town in the night either. Because the stores are closed.
Yeah, as if repression is the answer to homelessness. Homeless people drink or consume other drugs to relieve the various stress associated with being on the street (as evidenced by drinking and drug use amounts immediately going down in housing-first projects), or to self-medicate physical health problems (alcohol is an effective pain number) that the life style brings with it or the mental health conditions that caused their homelessness in the first place.
Actually helping people with housing and healthcare would be a way more efficient usage of public funds than wasting it on police that is using it for power trips against the powerless.
In Australia there is usually somewhat good access to housing/welfare. Certainly leaps and bounds ahead of the US. The problem is that your options are either a homeless shelter which prohibits drugs, or the welfare system which requires you to apply for jobs and attend checkups. To some people, neither of these options is desirable so they choose to live on the street.
The system in Australia isn't perfect but it is fair to say that it's almost impossible to be involuntarily homeless for an extended period.
I think your drinking laws are more rooted in conservative Christianity and disdain for poor folks that might just drink up their welfare money somehow.
Aren't there laws against assaulting people on the street that the police could use, then?
At least you understand that a lot of American policing is deliberately abusing poor people and minorities who aren't doing anything wrong, under the assumption that later they'll do something wrong.
I haven't seen evidence to suggest that "a lot" of American policing involves officers abusing their power. It definitely happens and, when it does, needs to be dealt with.
I have known and worked alongside enough law enforcement and emergency workers to know they're too in fear for their own lives most days to be making unnecessary trouble. Their top priority is to de-escalate situations and make it home to their families. It literally takes one wrong assumption or letting down of the guard in a bad situation to end up dead, so while I do sympathize with _anyone_ who has been wronged by authority, I can't support blanket statements like the above.
As a counter point, guns are basically illegal in MX, yet they have no problem.
Then there’s 3D printers, apparently nerf guns can be converted as well.
So no, there’s still guns available in Australia and NZ, if people want them. You just don’t have the divisiveness and hatred there like we do in the US.
The harder it is to get guns, the less people that will get them. Are you really saying that if you make people drive 500 more miles to acquire guns, gun crimes levels will stay exactly the same?