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Comment by jdonaldson | Hacker News Reader

I highly recommend this "Let's Read" thread on James Bond from SomethingAwful : https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=38...

My takeaway on Bond is that he's way more interesting as a flawed protagonist, much in the same way Fleming himself was. Through the movies, he became symbolic and idolized in a way that I don't think Fleming intended.

The Casino Royale movie reboot was pretty great IMHO. The direction Bond is going now is pretty hit and miss. I'm guessing every few decades we'll need to tear down the mythology and start over with something better grounded in reality, and give a reminder of how imperfect Bond can be.

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When was James bond perfect? He gets caught, betrayed, tortured, outsmarted in many movies before Casino Royale. He is deeply flawed as well.

I actually think James Bond doesn't work in a realistic setting. It just becomes a random action movie like what we've seen during the Craig's Era.

I just finished a full rewtch of the 25 movies and it's crazy how enjoyable the "old" ones were compared to the reboot. I remember my wife telling me during Quantum of Solace "I guess now it's more Jason Bourne than James Bond".

How did you feel about Skyfall? I'm not a big Bond (or even action movie) fan and I didn't like Quantum of Solace, but Skyfall is one of my favorite films just on cinematography alone. I certainly don't find it to be just a random action movie (or if it is, I need to find which action movies are that visually stunning!)

Skyfall was great in that it grounded the relationships that Bond had with M. I believe he/she is just as interesting a character as Bond is... but never fully developed. I always thought if John Le Carré was writing Bond the focus would be on M, and might even make for a better book. Skyfall been the only recent movie that has added something meaningful to the Bond persona IMHO.

I think "perfect" refers more to his character and morals rather than intelligence or material success. In the older films he's sort of portrayed as something for men to aspire to. In the newer films his womanising, alcoholism and lived traumas are brought to the fore.

the mythologized bond of the older films worked much better in the cold war. Jason Bourne films are a natural product of the changing public perception of spies in the post 9/11 era. I think the grittier Craig reimagining was inevitable as 'good v evil' bond narratives had only become more outlandish and irrelevant as the 2000s rolled on.

I suppose I have to agree with you. "Movie Bond" is entertaining on its own, and deserves a fan base... especially for their scripted set action pieces. The actual espionage, intrigue, and interpersonal motivations are barely there though. It's just Bond fighting some incredibly implausible supervillain with some kind of stylish deformity... there's a girl involved, and Bond will usually have a go... rinse and repeat through a dozen movies. You know what? It's a formula that works, and I'm not going to be a hater.

That's great. Love it. Bookmarked it.

I didn't know Let's Reads existed.

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