Why Don't Americans Use Bidets? | Hacker News Reader

Why Don't Americans Use Bidets?

theatlantic.com

57 pointselorant95 comments

I would encourage anyone who has never used a bidet to go out and try one. Most modern bidets are Japanese style (built into the toilet itself or replacing the toilet seat) rather than European style (discrete units which sit next to your toilet) and thus are much easier to install and use outside of a new construction.

I had never used a bidet until I visited Japan a few years ago and I was instantly hooked after one use. Washing away excrement using pressurized water as opposed to smearing it around using toilet paper is more efficient, more hygienic, more pleasant, and results in a cleaner outcome. Bidets effectively let you perform a less-invasive enema which you cannot replicate with toilet paper. The one downside to using them is that the nice ones do require electrical power to produce heated water, so you need to employ an extension cord or get an outlet installed next to your toilet to use them.

I personally have a Biobidet 6800U which goes on sale for 50% off at Costco pretty regularly.

I bought a simple $80 one at the start of the pandemic and now that's the only toilet in the house I'll use.

I also got to try those when visiting Japan, but I have to say it didn't seem like a significantly better experience than just cleaning with toilet paper to me. Maybe I'm completely mistaken, but I do think I do a reasonable job cleaning myself with just paper so I didn't feel significantly cleaner.

But IMO the worst problem was that you now have a wet bottom, which you again need paper to dry. Combine that with the not-so-great quality of toilet paper in Japan and now you have small pieces of dissolved paper all over you.

Maybe I did something wrong, I guess some of the fancier washlets have a dryer, but that didn't really work all that great for me.

When your hand is full of lets say chocolate... do you feel you can do a "reasonable" job cleaning your hands with dry paper towels?

Think about it for second...

That's why bidet seats ( and the often overlooked spray bidets ), are vital to good bum hygiene :)

I don’t really understand in what scenario a bum needs to be the level of clean a jet of water provides vs the level of clean a towel provides.

I mean in both cases it’s not being disinfected but you’re getting enough off to prevent underwear stains.

Convenience makes sense as a selling point, but I’m not really convinced the cleanliness difference matters in a practical way.

I guess you need me to list them. ( this is just getting funny.. telling people that cleaning their bum after number two is a positive thing.. i thought we covered this in pre-school, next up.. why you should use a washcloth or equivalent and not stick the bar of soap up your... crevices )

- smells

- dirty laundry

- Comfort (not wallowing in your own filth)

- sweat does tend to flow.. bringing with it.. you guessed it.

But onto your point about "disinfection". I don't know which alcohol baths you take, but full disinfection isn't the goal. But since you need evidence.. "How effective is soap over plain old water? It works, but all else being equal, water has a greater marginal effect. " [1]

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/soap-how-...

If you actually cared about hygiene you'd be using something like wet-naps, since bidet nozzles aren't sanitary (would you rinse your mouth with a bidet nozzle?)

Just no. I really don't understand this irrational, baseless fear. Water does clean.

- Fatbergs ( danger in flushing them )

- Hands touching excrement, then you touching other surfaces.

- No, an active nozzle can't get soiled the way you think. This is almost akin to thinking that a faucet can get dirty. The force of flow is a LOT larger than projectile acceleration no matter how bad those tacos where. In any case, most bidets have self cleaning, and anti microbial surfaces.

But sure, keep on smelling. it's your choice after all.

You're calling me irrational, but you're using folk pseudoscience to justify using bidets over wet-naps, which are superior to bidets. You can even get the scented ones that make your asshole actually smell nice.

Why are creating an artificial either/or straw man situation and arguing it so vehemently?

Well, the bidet discourse isn't actually about hygiene, as you can see. It's a bad faith culture war discourse used to establish cultural superiority over other people. There's no point engaging with bad faith discourse and treating it as if it's in good faith.

In defense of Japanese toilet papers, some of them aren't solid because they prefer softness than strength.

Personally I occasionally use bidets even though it's available in most places because I don't strongly needed it (but not hated it, just no reason to use or not to use it)

I got a replacement seat version when I had my bathroom redone. I figured that, if it breaks down I can simply replace it rather than potentially have to have some specialist come to the house. (And, as it turned out, it did stop working properly post-warranty although as I replaced it I was suspicious the plumber just didn't install it properly. Which given the plumber's work generally would not have been a surprise.)

But, yeah, the big cost for most people outside of a remodel situation is the need to have a proper outlet installed.

I've had a washlet for a decade and absolutely am glad I spent what seemed like a scandalous amount of money at the time. Despite the built in dryer, paper is still required to get truly dry but other than that, it's great.

The article is a bit weird. The author starts off with a seemingly disconnected claim about prejudice that she never really is able to support except through rather weak conjecture. The whole thing reads like she needed to meet an identity politic quota and was working backwards to make it happen.

This finally ends with a pitch for a particular company's bidet toilet seat attachment. There are countless companies selling these on Amazon and elsewhere so it's a bit strange that this one company's offer is treated as something revolutionary and unique. Does The Atlantic get a cut of sales they send that way?

> The author starts off with a seemingly disconnected claim about prejudice

I think you are misreading that. What I take that is that the author is lamenting that people are so prejudiced against Americans that they remove necessary hygiene systems for fear of offending American sensibilities. (Could you imagine hearing that a hotel had been "<ethnicity>-ized" by removing the sinks, on the assumption that people would take offense at the suggestion they should wash their hands?)

I bought a Genie Bidet at the beginning of the pandemic due to the toilet paper shortage. Never shit without one now. Doesn't save toilet paper but the idea of a dry wipe is for the savages.

This. It’s strange to me that US culture places importance in frequently washing hair, hands, etc.

However potentially smearing faeces over part of your body and sitting with it festering there for 12 hours or until your next shower is completely acceptable.

How do such bidets work in public bathrooms? Most public bathrooms, the only thing I reasonably trust to be clean is the toilet paper. Doesn't the bidet get exposed to there people's excrement, raising the chance of passing that exposure onto the next user of the stall? Genuinely curious.

The electronic bidets will run the water at low pressure for a few seconds to wash that away, the cheap ones will raise above behind a guard and the water pressure causes it to lower which also causes it to run for a little before use

I don't use toilet paper at all any longer, haven't bought or used a single square the entire pandemic.

Then again, the RH here is usually around 25%.

I’ve shifted from the cheap bidet attachments on Amazon to the $300 Toto which includes both heated seat and water. It’s phenomenal, to the point that I added two new electrical outlets to my house to accommodate them.

Particularly with the toilet paper ‘shortage’ it’s wild to me that so many people still waste their time and money using paper.

I don't understand the TP thing. You need to dry up with TP anyways.

I certainly don't want an integrated seat that gets filthy with splash back when somebody takes a dump. I can understand the wands more, but still they risk getting very dirty from various users with various skill levels. We use wet wipes which is not ideal ecologically, but a bidet risks being far dirtier than a shopping cart handle and we conserve elsewhere.

Most seat-mounted units have retractable nozzles that keep them out of the splash zone.

I had a Toto washlet installed on a toilet for around 15 months. When I uninstalled it, I was prepared for the worst, but it was fine underneath. You just clean the seat and lid like any other toilet, with paper towels and some kind of spray cleaner, it's fine.

i hope you're not flushing the wet wipes and contributing to the fatberg problem or risking your own plumbing.

nope

Don’t touch the bidet with your hands? The nozzle and water are clean. Not sure what you’re worried about there.

What you just described is an issue with every toilet seat... it is not unique to bidets.

What I think you mean is that the sprayer/nozzle can get dirty? Do you have similar fears of your kitchen/bathroom faucet? because there's no way anything can stay in the spray nozzle of a bidet. that part self cleans instantaneously.

I don't try to clean myself with my toilet seat. It might "self clean" with water, but that is far from sterile. And yes of course a sink used to wash after using the toilet is dirty, as are the towels used to dry your hands. After a year of a pandemic, we should know that none of this is perfect. As in many cultures, we use separate towels for hand wiping and face wiping for this very reason.

I'm remodeling a bathroom to become part of our master bedroom in a walk-out basement. I had an extra water source and decided to build a small wall next to the toilet to hold a hand-held bidet sprayer. It's very low-profile, and relatively easy to install (since the wall was open).

Having a second porcelain appliance (and drain) for a full-on bidet doesn't make much sense to me, but I am really looking forward to completing the project to have it.

I often take a shower in the morning after I do my business for the sole purpose of cleaning my bum. This will save energy, water, and time!

Bidets rock. I've had one for years - I didn't have to worry about a toilet paper shortage. The only problem is not many people have them, so going to the bathroom elsewhere isn't as comfortable.

I think Muslims have bidets as part of standard hygiene, but I could be wrong. If it is true, I need more Muslim friends :)

It's true in Turkey. Never seen a toilet without integrated bidet there. Since I moved from there, it became a common reoccurence that colleagues returning from toilet smelling poo. Yikes...

Can confirm, as part of the wudu or pre-prayer washing ritual, you are required to rinse your privates with water if you have not done so or used the restroom since your last prayer. Often times this is done with a bidet. Watering pots are also common :D

I legit heard multiple Americans discuss it dismissively like it's a toilet dildo for homosexuals.

Even the fact it's a French word was a proof of that.

I can attest to this. When I've mentioned owning own I've had a couple of folks snear upon it as though I've affixed a dildo to my toilet seat. The idea that it might be at all pleasurable is grotesque to them - I wonder if they usecheap single ply?

Toto, hai!

Aquaus 360 ftw. No more blood(yes, I exercise, eat fiber, and hydrate). Saves a little on TP, although you'll use a bit wiping up the occasional overspray. Liked it so much, I bought another for the guest bathroom at the in-laws house.

You bleed from using TP?

Are bidets meant to be used with paper or without? It seems unlikely to do a good job with just a spray.

Also, for males, doesn't genetalia and hair get in the way more, depending on the type of bidet?

I also have so many questions... I've lived in the UK, South Africa, and New Zealand and have never had an opportunity to try one before.

So many comments mention bidet vs toilet paper or bidet as a solution to toilet paper shortage. This is so weird to me (and I guess to others raised in countries where the idea of not having a bidet is not even considered) because in the way we are taught the two aren't mutually exclusive, and I ain't talking about using toilet paper to dry yourself. Sure, one can manage with just one of them if needed but still... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ha! They don’t know about the three shells!

Flushable Wipes.

I used bidets growing up (discrete unit as well as seat integrated) and 99% of the time it worked but the 1% of the time when someone's poop got stuck to the fountain head/tube was enough to turn me off. However, wiping your anus with dry toilet paper, especially if you're a grown adult with a hairy anus, is bound to leave your own poop smear on your own anus, so these days i use flushable wipes. Works too if you're using a porta potti - just carry flushable wipes with you.

No such thing as "flushable" wipes, it's an advertising gimmick

Two things...

- Flushable wipes should be avoided ( FATBERGS!!! ) ( although they are great )

- Spray bidets can get you to overcome your fear of seeing the random poop stain in a toilet.. :)

Just an fyi, flushable wipes aren't actually that friendly to sewage systems.

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2015/may/26...

I have a cheap LUXE Neo bidet at home. It is one of the reasons why I am not looking forward to returning to the office. Wiping your poopy butt with your hand is for suckers.

Kind of cheaper to use a watering can and a free hand.

sounds like a recipe for coronavirus, i hope no public restrooms are like this!

They're not and that's why I never go No. 2 in public. I cannot imagine just wiping a few times and pulling my pants up.

I've had one for half a decade or more; using _just_ toilet paper feels gross and unclean, now.

It's saved my family a bundle, too.

I’ve discovered if you adhere to a diet recommended by your doctor then you’re not going to have many issues with clean up. Yet another way you can lessen your impact on the world’s natural resources.

about 2 years ago I did a work trip through Argentina and Ecuador. The only place I've ever seen a bidet was in Argentinian Hotels and I suspect they didn't work. They were a separate unit next to the toilet, I didn't (and still don't) understand how I was meant to use them but when I "turned them on" the spray that came out was feeble... would not have reached my arse, nowhere near it.

I'm still curious about them, but my experience of them has left me nonplussed about the concept.

Why don’t humans poop on the lawn? (Dog Weekly, English edition)

We have a few of the Luxe 120's. I've evangelized these to my family who also picked them up. A bidet is such a life upgrade.

I would personally never get rid of toilet paper. Feeling _completely dry_ afterwards is very important to me.

Never seen those here in Scandinavia either, actually didn't know they existed until a couple of years ago.

Not sure if you consider Finland a Scandinavian country, but they have handheld sprays installed next to all toilets specifically to wash their butts.

A few old installations have them (1970-1980s bathrooms?)

My TOTO Washlet is such a joy, the automatic lid and the heated seat. I smile at the nightlight.

I do and when I go somewhere else I feel like a caveman using TP

Which countries use them? I know Japan but I thought almost no one else did. Hotel rooms in zero countries I have visited have had separate bidets or Japanese style toilets.

Many countries have them – too many to list. I think the first place I saw them was in Thailand.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/cgyz5q/countries_t...

Not the countries I expected in Europe. I have traveled a lot in Spain/France/Italy and seen very few in hotels or private homes/AirBnBs. Let’s change the question: In which countries would it be seen as odd to not have one, rather than them being “not uncommon” as I’d assume this map is? Is that only in Asia these days?

That’s strange, because Italy has a law in place for which is mandatory to install a bidet in at least one bathroom in the house. “Health Ministry Decree 07/05/1975 Art. 7: For each accommodation, at least one bathroom must be equipped with the following sanitary facilities: toilet, bidet, bathtub or shower, sink.“ (https://www.indicenormativa.it/sites/default/files/Decreto%2...)

Weird. Maybe hotels are exempted from that?

I am from Italy and I've never seen a house or a hotel there not having one. We have been used to use it since we are young and when speaking to other Italians abroad, the talk about "how can these people live without a bidet?" comes out a lot.

Must be tough for Italians to travel across Europe and feel like savages when using bathrooms on holidays? A bit like when I use the “hole in the ground” model of toilet in some countries I guess.

Brondell Swash SE600. Enough said.

also if youre looking to optimize your numbertwoing, get a squatty potty. game-changer!

More importantly, why is The Atlantic publishing a story about why Americans don't use bidets?

Or the rest of North America, Northern Europe, etc.

People just love to pick on Americans.

what other part of your body would you be willing to get feces on, and just wipe it off with some paper? you would want water and probably soap.

why is your butthole different?

the chances of me ever having a say in how i use the toilet is probably 0 or less

That's a shame; I hope you feel independence in other ways.

There is lot of modern technology/appliances that Americans strangely refuse to adopt, induction cooktops and combination washer-dryer washing machines for example..

Induction doesn't work for all pans, and require a 240v line run to your stove top. Combo washer/dryers take significantly longer to do laundry, since you can only have one load going at a time.

These are tradeoffs, and there's nothing strange about that. Personally, I have looked at getting both, but the cost and tradeoffs (given how my kitchen is already set up and the amount of laundry we do) just didn't make sense.

>Induction doesn't work for all pans, and require a 240v line run to your stove top

And most induction tops draw so much current that you need at least 2 phases, but optimally 3 phases installed.

Having used both induction cooktops and gas burners for years, you can pry my gas range knobs from my cold dead hands. Induction cooktops create a set of constrains on use that gas ranges don't have.

If not for anything else, since there is no combustion happening in the induction, it gives better air quality in your kitchen and house, and compared to an electric range there are other definite advantages as well.

Combination washer-dryers are not common anywhere because they are terrible. I live in Europe and bought a washer/dryer recently so researched the options. The main problems are (1) the dryer is half the capacity of the washer (2) double the complexity so lots of stuff can break down.

However your primary point might be correct - European windows are much better - how they can open sideways and from the top - I've never seen that in the states.

I am not getting that argument, there are machines that use the same single drum for washing and drying. Its widely popular in Asia for at least the past 30 years, and I don't think they are especially succeptible to maintanence issues or it wouldn't be so popular.

Also they eliminate the need to transfer clothes from the washer to the dryer, which is a major convenience.

Okay, point me to a machine available in Europe which has equal drying and washing capacities. It isn't about drum size, but what they are rated to be able to do.

This model, for example? https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/uk/product-reviews/electric...

Your link doesn't mention it and I can't find the drying capacity for that machine with google.

It doesn't mention a separate drying capacity, but it is being done in the same drum. It can do 8kg washload and 8kg of spin drying is what I would assume.

I only have experience with one particular model during a long-term relocation, but I found that combination washer-dryer unit to be incredibly slow and small. It made sense for a small apartment, but given the choice I’ll take a full size washer and full size dryer anyway. I guess it’s only puzzling to me why small apartments rely on laundromats instead of adding combo units so day to day washing can be done without leaving home.

Despite the convenience of not having to move clothes from the washer to dryer?

These combination automatic washing machines are wildy popular in Asia, where seperate dryer appliances are virtually unheard of.

I'm thinking some of the push back against these machines might be from Appliance makers who would prefer customers buy 2 appliances instead of one.

Using a toilet without a bidet is the equivalent to stepping barefoot into dog crap, the crap gets all in between your toes, and then you use dry paper towels to clean off.

Disgusting.

From the MidWest -

I've personally been using a bidet since 13. Installed my own in the family home.

In my personal region, and what I've found to be true of a decent, err, portion of the MidWest - the very act of washing in-between your arsecheeks, especially your actual anus, is seen to be gay/homosexual by many. Keep in mind, to these people I've referenced, to be gay/homosexual is one of the worst things you can be on this planet.

Yes, this is completely and utterly irrationally idiotic. However, it is truly true. A few decades from now I presume most of those that perpetuate this ideology will be dead though. Bidets are great, wash your butts you nerds.

Also from the rural Midwest, and have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's a fair amount of religious push back against the act of homosexuality, but this sounds fairly Twilight Zone-esque.

It's probably the talking about bidets, and how clean your butthole is, that comes across as homosexual.

Because it's a useless gizmo for microphobiacs?

If your butt smells at all, it's not useless.

If a butt smells, either its owner doesn't know how to use toilet paper, or the other person is too close.

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