Ask HN: How to disconnect from work? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: How to disconnect from work?

83 pointspatrick-bk52 comments

Hello,

I'm a developer and I struggle to "get a life".

My job is my passion. And this is the problem.

I spend my weekend thinking about bugs I have to solve and most of the time trying to learn a new language/framework.

Sometimes It just doesn't feel right especially when you hear some colleagues talking about their weekend in the mountains or just hanging out with their friends.

While it's satisfying to be up-to-date and having a certain level of expertise, I really feel that I'm not enjoying life but instead just working all the time.

Question : Did anyone have that issue ? How did you manage to disconnect from work and forget about it during free time ?

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It is absolutely not a problem that programming is your passion and also your job. For many people, it's a dream come true.

But don't do work in your free time. Don't fix bugs for your employer, don't learn stuff you need to learn for your employer. Don't give away your time for free. Doing work in your free time will burn you out. Doing the same things you do at work will burn you out – it will take a bit longer, but it will happen. Many employers discourage working in your free time, just because of that (and because in some countries, they're legally obliged to ensure their employees have some free time).

Instead, do your own thing, develop your own project. Probably you'll create 10 side projects and abandon every single one of them after a few days. Something will stick (finding a side project is a whole other topic). Maybe do some open source contributions. Be passionate about your own project(s). And try something new, something you can't do at work. May it be another framework, language, or just some new fancy libraries. It will broaden your horizon and drastically improve your skills as a software engineer.

You will still think of that annoying bug you couldn't fix that day. Those feelings won't go away, but they will be less and less nagging.

Finally, turn off distractions from work in your free time. Mute your work-related notifications, don't check your work mails, they can wait until monday. Oh, and don't forget to meet your friends, go grab your favorite drink with them.

+1000 on this. When I was younger I would work for my employer on the weekends/late nights to try to get ahead. Did that for so many years. I only gave myself a little bit of free time for myself on the weekend.

I _never_ thought I would burnout. “If you enjoy work, work life balance doesn’t matter” I would think to myself. But the point above about “it will take longer, but it will happen” is absolutely correct.

I am now burned out, 13 years later. I’m now going through the process of changing how I think about work-life-balance.

Find a passion outside of work. Think about something that is meaningful to you or some hobby you want to try.

Plan activities with your friends ahead of time - hikes, going to restaurants, just hanging out. It gives you something to look forward to on the weekends.

I agree. It took a while before I was able to leave office behind after a long week. And while I still have.. homework of sorts, I now go out of my way to play with things that are not related to my job at all ( just bought pine time dev kit -- this will be fun ).

> But don't do work in your free time. Don't fix bugs for your employer, don't learn stuff you need to learn for your employer.

What hammered this home for me after years of loving my job and thinking about work outside of work, was how little ROI that investment has actually had, compared to how much value it's added for my employers. Now don't get me wrong, I'm pretty happy with my career progress so far, and my love of my job, and learning outside business hours, is a major part of that.

That said, though, I can learn a lot of the same things while trying to invest the time itself in something of my own, where worst case scenario I get the same learning out of it, my employer and my career both still benefit, and I get to choose the direction myself. There's at least a chance, though, that I could produce some extra income, and maybe even build something sustainable on the side where I can personally see a much higher fraction of the ROI, rather than it disappearing somewhere into the enterprise.

And you will be adding interesting projects to your resume, which might create new opportunities.

Life is finite but work is infinite. When you hit your 40s you'll start wondering why you wasted all your time for no benefit to you. When you work in your 20s you don't think it'll ever end but once you hit 40 you realize you're mortal and Friday's problem can become Monday's problem as it doesn't really matter.

Take a notebook and write down the issues that come into your head at the weekend then hopefully that will help you disconnect.

Don't check or respond to email at the weekend is my preference. My big boss once said that the great thing about working remote is that we don't need to book-end our jobs as being 9 to 5. Yeah, no.

> Friday's problem can become Monday's problem

Not only this, but on weekdays problems can be left to the following morning.

I second the notebook for getting work puzzles - or their showertime solutions - out of my head.

I don't have a work phone, and blowed if I'm going to install Outlook on my personal phone.

When you hit your 40s you'll start wondering why you wasted all your time for no benefit to you.

You might. Or you might look at your bank account, and the house, and the kid's private school, and the paid-off medical bills, the charitable donations you've done and will do, and the diversified portfolio which is paying cashflow so you and your kids don't have to work again (but still want to).

For most people within 2 sigmas, don't work a minute more than you're paid. But for those who believe success and knowledge compounds f(time); consider turning the knob towards (but not all the way) towards work side of work:life balance.

> write down the issues

I used to think the only purpose of writing things down is so that I don't forget, but I knew I could remember so I didn't write stuff down, and usually I did remember.

Writing stuff down serves another, more important, purpose though. It allows you to forget. After you write it down, you can let it go, free your mind, and know it's physically waiting for you on Monday.

Only good for the bosses and the shareholders.

> My big boss once said that the great thing about working remote is that we don't need to book-end our jobs as being 9 to 5.

Hehe sure we can make it 10 to 4 then. Thanks bossman.

I recently stopped using my work phone as my personal phone and that’s made a huge difference. Now my work phone stays at my desk unless I’m on-call so I can’t read email, chat, or even look at my calendar unless I’m actively working.

Of course it meant I had to buy a phone and pay for service, but it’s totally worth it.

I’ve been WFH for 7 years now and this is the first time I have good separation of my life.

The thing that provides the best reset for me is a couple of days entirely off the grid, definitely without cell service, preferably without power. There is something about being out on a backpacking trip–10 miles walking from the nearest road, an hours drive to reliable cell service–that really allows me to clear my head.

That Nagios alarm that might be going off right now? Literally impossible for me to know about it. Somebody else's problem. Idea pops into my head about how to solve x problem I've been mulling over for days? Impossible to get that programming dopamine hit from immediately sitting down and implementing it. Gotta just write it in my notebook and pick it up on Monday.

I very often come home from those trips with fresh perspective on big questions I've been avoiding, or good new ideas to pursue.

I actually relax by doing physical labor. I work in my garden planting, tilling, and weeding. I work on my house all the time on all kinds of little projects. When I don't have enough to do, I go work for others by volunteering etc. Sitting around does nothing for me, in fact it makes me more stressed out. However, getting a nice sweat in and accomplishing something, even mundane, does wonders for me.

If you hear your colleagues doing things on the weekend you'd have liked to been doing as well, well, it's not too late to start doing them on the next weekends.

If you enjoy the work and you don't feel like it's too much, then just work when you feel like it. That also goes for self-education that you'd otherwise be doing during work time, like looking into that new framework. If your employer is flexible, you might also be able to work when you feel like it on Saturday night and then take Monday morning to sleep in and relax with a series while cooking breakfast. Of course, be careful when doing this, and it doesn't sound like this is for you, but it might be for other people. I sometimes work in evenings because a project is just a lot of fun and I don't want to play games to relax instead. Sometimes I take that time back later, sometimes not.

As for disconnecting: when I'm done working I turn off my work laptop and don't carry my work phone. If someone wants to reach me for work they can contact my private phone, or if I want to do work, I need to boot the laptop (or pick up the phone but everyone else is also offline so not much work to be done there). I guess that makes it quite a conscious decision and clear barrier. It does, obviously, mean having private devices so you don't need to use your employer's equipment for private stuff.

Hey Patrick,

Very similar boat as you, and my career has gone fairly well. I won’t say any of the advice below is bad; however, I would point out how all over the place it is. The reason that’s true is that you’re seeing each person’s personal experience come to light in these threads, and they’re doing their best to help apply that to your question.

So, rather than tell you how to create a balance that’s right for you, I’d suggest spending a couple of months with a therapist who specializes in work related challenges. You might find that you benefit from having someone you can work with over a few months to aid in the discovery of what matters most to you in your life and career, and then help you form a plan and take action against those desires.

Regardless of what comes out of those conversations, you may find that your priorities and balance change month to month, year to year, job to job, etc. Life is beautifully dynamic, and you get to be in the driver’s seat of how you choose to traverse it each and every day. This statement is not true for the vast majority of people on this planet, but it thankfully is for you.

I hope you ultimately find long periods of enjoyment with your personal and career journey.

Turn off your notifications. Put down your phone. Find an engrossing hobby such as gaming, tv, movies, sports/physical activity, hiking or whatever and do that. Again with no phone or notifications.

You must rest and disconnect, or you're not being as productive and creative as you think you are.

You need to get to know Max Frenzel. Start with the book Time Off: A Practical Guide to Building Your Rest Ethic and Finding Success Without the Stress that he co-wrote with John Fitch and Mariya Suzuki (Illustrator): https://maxfrenzel.com/time-off or just to dip your toe in the waters read https://maxfrenzel.medium.com/in-praise-of-deep-work-full-di...

It’s perfectly fine to enjoy what you do. Keep in mind you have people who are envious on what you have. Being able to nerd out on a specific thing.

That said striking a balance is important. Go work out, go for a hike, go for a drinks or dinner with friends.

This is the advice I'd like to stand by. Don't throw away what you have. Find the right balance.

Sometimes I'll think about bugs or try and learn something over the weekend for work. But I only do it for as long as I enjoy it. The second I don't enjoy it I do something else. It's my time, not my employers. I enjoy programming, that's why it's my job. It's only natural that I'll do it in my free time too sometimes.

It's up to you really. If you enjoy doing work related stuff for free then do it, but most people don't enjoy that and I presume you probably don't either. You just like the act of software development. So start some personal projects to scratch that itch when you have it.

Learning a new language/framework on weekends isn't "work" unless you're billing your employer for the time. It's professional development in a field you care about personally.

I would be learning new languages and frameworks and hacking even if "computer programmer" weren't a profession, same as writing or djing or photography or any other thing I've been doing my whole life.

It sounds like you feel badly for pursuing your passion, which you also have as your profession?

There's no harm in that. I do a bunch of computer shit that has nothing to do with my computer-based revenue generating businesses.

When I want a break, I read books.

  (crontab -l ; echo "00 19 * * 1-5 killall slack && killall zoom") | crontab -

is a good start.

I think it's good you're passionate about work and work in something you are passionate about.

BUT.. since they don't pay you for this overtime, you should find better use of your time. will it be programming? so be it, but do it for yourself. work on personal projects, and don't forget to clock out completely once in a while, have some social time. if mountains aren't your thing that's fine, surround yourself with the people you do want to be with.

First let me say that there is NOTHING wrong to think about what you enjoy during weekend. And kudos to you because most of the people who advocate "4-hour workday" or "completely seperate life and work" simply because they do not enjoy work so they want to spend as few hours as possible, which is 100% understandable.

But you are not. You like your job and you think about ways to improve your job during weekend because you HAVE TO. It's like water and air to you -- you can't live without them. Let me say that although this is not very healthy to you (like any obssession is unhealthy), this is pretty much the healthiest obsession you can get yourself into, plus it probably will bring you more money on the side way.

You also don't feel right when you have a different type of weekend comparingto your colleauge. Now that you mentioned it, you would also want to check, deep inside of your heart, do you feel bad because you really want to go to the mountains or speak to your friends, or are you just uncomfortable about not being the norm of the society. If it's the second one then I'd advise you not to worry about it.

That said, if you already considered all what I said and STILL feel that you are "not enjoying life", that you geniunely want to go to the mountains but just can't do it, then I'd suggest that you get a doctor because it's difficult for individuals to get rid of their obsessions all by their own. You can definitely learn some tricks here, but ultimately you need scientifically proved way to remove your obsession.

*Edit*

The advice given by timomeh is good. He/she doesn't ask you to give up your passion, but just don't give it away for free. If you are so into programming, then there are definitely other projects you want to work on. Focus on your personal learning/projects in weekends.

I took a couple years off after a job to finish my Ph.D. During that time, I lived in the mountains. I spent the days hiking and mountain biking, and the evenings (when I wasn't exhausted) working on research and writing.

Depending on how this return to office goes, I still plan on spending most of my time in the mountains. Hiking is a release of anxious energy for me, and a chance to truly be alone with myself and my thoughts.

Mountain biking on the other hand forces me to concentrate on something different. If a negative thought comes into my head while biking, I will crash. So, it's kind of trained my mind to try not to be so negative.

Aside from gaining additional hobbies, I don't check my work email or IMs after 6pm, period. I also do not respond to emails on the weekend (even if I choose to do work).

Here’s a different perspective that might help: If you don’t enjoy being on mountains, why would you waste your life on that?

For more helpful advice, find people who also like learning languages/frameworks and spend time with them. Ideally, not at the same company you’re in but that totally works too.

Perhaps you could take the energy you apply to becoming a better engineer and apply it to something unrelated that gives you variety in life and indirectly benefits your job, since it is your passion. For instance, you could set a lofty fitness goal and spend the years it may take figuring out how to get there. It would give you something else to enjoy, and improving your health would probably improve your productivity at work, too. Also, improving your health and fitness can unlock new opportunities for things you could do, so you may find new hobbies that you never would have considered before. It's also possible you could meet people outside of your line of work if you're exercising in a social setting like a spin class, etc.

Good luck finding your right balance!

You don't 'disconnect', you do other things and that causes your mind to switch.

Most people want an intimate relationship, a family at some point and to be healthy. Chances are, you want some of those things too. By pursuing them, things will fall into place.

Just don't expect it to be easy or fun right away. If you didn't do sports of some kind as a kid, any physical exercise will be awkward for a while but it's a hurdle you just have to get past. The same applies to being social - if you aren't naturally extroverted, it'll take some time :)

One more thing: sooner or later, your interest in learning new languages and frameworks will exhaust itself. There's far less interesting stuff happening than one imagines when one's first learning about it all :)

I've these same thoughts and feelings. Right now I just would like to get outside more and get some exercise. In general I don't feel bad if I work on work problems off-hours as you can't really control when your brain figures things out. These moments should be for exceptional/interesting cases though and not a priority for and reason like a work deadline. It's not even like internet services have truly hard deadlines like gamedev or shrinkwrap software of olden days.

Learning new languages or frameworks out of pure interest is a luxury that I enjoy. Also try to write open source libraries, frameworks or software yourself. Making a product can be interesting too but only as long as it's fun.

I had this problem and I didn't do much to resolve it and eventually ended up in a bad burnout. Since then I have hated working longer hours. In retrospect I could've done so many things, but I ended up learning the hard way.

Here are a few things you could try:

- Use your expertise to help the marginalized people around you. This will surely take you away from your work towards a human touch.

- Did you ever have any other passion before you started working. Try rekindling them.

- falling in love/ getting married, having kids gives life a new perspective ..

- Changing your job, going into a new environment may also help ..

Hope you find your way .. wishing you the best ..

Don’t put your email/slack/etc on your phone. Get a hobby that doesn’t involve a keyboard.

Go fishing, learn to work on a car, paint, fix your house. Whatever, just do something that doesn’t need you typing.

Keep your dedication, but get something in return:

1. Go for a 4-day week. Reduce hours a little bit, actually bill/stamp/communicate your 9-10hour days you do anyway (I guess)

2. make 3 day weekends. 1 day chores, one day as usual (bugs, frameworks, rss feeds etc), but you get one additional free day - let it come to you what will happen there. i have seen people practically going to professional cooking level, 250miles a day cycling, hiking, etc - you’ll discover that.

3. enjoy. don’t let your result being brandished by other people’s quick fixes to their lives (-;

Programming may be your passion, but too much of something will eat you. You need to find balance. Its imperative you find a way to switch off and recharge.

I would suggest joining a hiking club or something you can do at weekends thats different to the daily grind.

Especially don't think about bugs at the weekend.

I would even go for a cycle or a run first thing Saturday morning, then go get a coffee, some breakfast. Invite a friend for coffee. I think ultimately find another pursuit in addition to development.

Is it a problem? I get to have the benefit of having coding as a hobby, which makes the only work part being the meetings and culture stuff.

I have done well treating work as a series of tasks I need to accomplish in a week rather than as a 40 hour block where I am owned and a 128 hour block that is mine. It has worked very well for me so far.

> I spend my weekend thinking about bugs I have to solve and most of the time trying to learn a new language/framework.

This is all right as long as:

- you are doing it for yourself (e.g., fixing bugs for your side projects, not for your company)

- you legitimately enjoy doing it

Hit the gym after work.

This will prevent you getting sick. It is not natural to sit all day long, so with the exercises you punch against all these sort of issues, pronto.

It will also relax your mind. It relieves the slight tension that we build up when "in the zone." It clears the "electrons" from your face.

Then, it will divide the day into two distinct parts.

For the first couple years of my career I was like that, then I just burned out so it kind of happened on its own. ThoughiI guess I never really blew off life to work, I was like hacking on stuff a lot.

I put some extra effort into developing more of hobbies that don't revolve around a screen just trying stuff and seeing what stuck

What worked for me was having a separate room to work, and another room for life/fun. Once the work is done, the door on my office is shut, which causes my brain to context switch into relaxation. It's a fun way to employ the Doorway Effect.

A lot of very good tips.

I would say: don't let work define you who you are.

You can be a programmer without putting all your time in work, try replacing that with other projects where you can put your passion and being in.

In addition: working so much only pays off if you have an equity stake.

There are 24 hours in a day. Even if you spent 10 hours a day learning and working, you still have a small window of time for other activities as well. Time management will help you get both a "life" and professional development.

As an aside, for the comments here that genuinely mean well and mention seeing a doctor or therapist, I have some thoughts on that. It feels a bit ableist to recommend without knowing more about your background. If you decide to go, you can always choose to do so with full self-compassion. It is not up to internet strangers to assess your situation, and in fact, feels risky to me when what you've asked about may well be addressed by some time management tools. Having said that, you can use the responses here as a diagnostic. What are their intentions, and how can you leverage that in your life? Sometimes, when people say that an idea is "wrong", that's the best indicator that you are in fact on the right path.

Do you spend a lot of time alone? In my experience if left to myself I'll just keep working. Having friends/partner who pull you away is nice.

If your answer is yes I'd say find a community join some classes or meetups not related to tech

One little yet effective way that works for me to keep work and play separate: during weekends or on holiday I switch to a different Apple Watch face.

The brightly colored and minimal face reminds me it’s fun time every time I check my wrist.

Maybe go for a weekend in the mountains. Take a book (fiction) and see whether you like that. Leave the cell at home. I personally never had this problem. I only do overtime to please the boss sometimes, not for myself.

Sounds like you have the energy and drive and obsession to work for yourself.

Honestly, I have the opposite problem since I fully internalized how little I get compensated compared to people higher up in the org chain.

Think about what you'd do if you just found out you had a month to live. Then start doing it. I doubt it will be programming.

Reminds me of an interview with Isaac Asimov. He spent all his time writing and the interviewer asked him what he would do if he had a month to live.

His answer was: 'I would write faster'.

Write down what you want to start back on Monday. Don't look at that until Monday.

Heres the protip : your job is not your passion.

This turned into a story, tldr at the end.

I’m in a similar boat, or have been. I’ve got a new hobby - civic engagement - but it mysteriously looks very similar to my actual work; lots of reading, writing, planning, coordinating.

It isn’t healthy to only be thinking in one particular way all day every day; I tend to want to work 10-11.5 hours at my day job, and then do a few more hours of other work (usually reading some type of report, annotating some sort of law/policy, or writing some sort of email).

For a while I was baking and learning music. It was fun to learn something totally new; being able to train myself to operate my hands in a new way was pretty cool. Unfortunately I became too busy and couldn’t sustain it.

Solutions:

- go to the movies. Short time commitment, usually engrossing content, gets you thinking in a different way. Theaters are open again and they’re putting out movies again (at least in the US). If the movie is really good, I forget myself and stop thinking analytically. If the movie isn’t so good, at least I’m thinking about that (‘the soundtrack choice isn’t great in this scene’, ‘having her force herself back to life and into this ship after clearly dying space doesn’t make any bleeping sense’) instead of API design or policy design.

- Games: this is a classic answer, but don’t feel bad if it doesn’t work. Once I’ve got something I care about/see value in, I can’t be motivated by video games. Great if you’re burnt out though.

- Drugs: sorry this isn’t a great or PC answer, but it’s the truth for myself and a lot of other people. If I really want to forget work, there are many options; alcohol is quite popular as is cannabis. It might seem like only bad people use cannabis, but realistically it is more common than you’d think (on the US west coast at least). I’m a workaholic so I have trouble enjoying time off, and that helps. Also makes sick days more bearable. I really hate being unable to work productively even though I want to; something other than sobriety can take the edge off. Drugs harder than cannabis not recommended. Again, not an amazingly healthy option, but it’s worth acknowledging the ugly truth.

- Human needs: if you are single and don’t want to be, work on addressing that while you can; evidence suggests that on your deathbed, you will regret not pursuing human connection.

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