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Comment by lettergram | Hacker News Reader

Pebble IMO was and still is the best wearable watch. I don’t think anything worked better largely due to the long battery life and generally the e-ink design. Had they added different wrist bands with smart tech in it, it would have gone even further.

I don’t really think apple has a decade lead, what they do have is minimal innovation they’re competing with. AND more importantly, a brand and ecosystem. That being said if Samsung came out with a decent watch similar to pebble and bundled it with their phones I think they’d be outselling Apple.

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I had several pebbles (2 b/w and the colored one) and now have an apple watch. You don’t know what you’re talking about, the tech in the apple watch is years ahead. There’s much to criticize about the apple watch but it does the important things just so much better than the competition. I also never understood the focus on battery life. I put my watch on the charger whenever I go to sleep. If I forget it either still has more than 50% charge or I can charge it quickly. I don’t care for edge cases (camping etc.)

One of the few things I used my smart-ish watch for is tracking my sleep.

Without a large screen and turning off all notifications, I get about 3-4 weeks of battery with my current watch. Personally I rarely take it off.

I’d like at least a week of battery if I were to adopt any other smart watch. For me personally, I enjoy thinking less about the battery of a device that I mostly use for passive personal data collection and telling the time.

You must not care about sleep tracking? That's why I find battery life annoying on the apple watch, it always runs out by the end of the day. Luckily, it does charge really fast so 30 min before falling asleep and its back on.

Do you have series 6?

Yes I do, and I use it for a number of things including sleep tracking which its great at.

I mean, sure the Apple Watch is "years ahead". It not only came out two years later, but is developed by one of the most wealthy consumer tech/software companies in the world. Pebble was acquired by FitBit right around the time the second iteration of the Apple Watch was out, so there's really not much point in comparing the two in terms of technology.

Despite Apple Watch's merits over the Pebble, I still miss my Pebble watches. The thing I actually miss the most is the physical buttons, so I can switch the currently-playing song with my watch without having to look at it. Having nearly all interaction with the Apple Watch being a touch screen is one big downside IMO -- still something it hasn't really "beaten" vs. Pebble Watch :)

I feel the same way with regards to the physical buttons, so easy to control by feel. I'd pay decent money for a phone case with external buttons for pausing/playing and other quick access functions.

The actual buttons on the pebble were terrible though but I do agree, it really sucks that this isn’t possible. I remember having a jailbreak tweak that allowed to use long presses on volume up/down to skip songs. Something like this could be done with the crown on the watch but we’re talking about apple, so don’t even think about using the physical inputs for something useful.

> can switch the currently-playing song with my watch without having to look at it

Why would you need to look at your watch? If you are listening to music on your Apple Watch - you are probably using headphones, all of which have next/prev buttons or gestures.

driving in my car and listening to music playing from my phone via bluetooth :)

Can you not use the button on your steering wheel in that scenario?

No, my car is kinda old - I use a Bluetooth FM Transmitter to broadcast the music to my car stereo! hahah :)

What is years ahead? It has a better SoC than competing watches for sure but what's the point? I wouldn't be surprised if the first Apple Watch has a faster SoC than my Fenix 5 Plus but other than the time it takes for it to make up a random running route I don't really care because the device feels snappy. My Pebble felt snappy too. I think other than EKG (don't care about that) my Fenix has all the same sensors, GPS, NFC for payments, HR monitor, accelerometer, altimeter, WiFi, bluetooth etc. I do wish it was a little more open like Pebble to get some of those weird little apps back though.

To me, a power hungry OLED touch screen seems like doing the important things wrong. It's harder to see in the sun, doesn't work with gloves or when it's cold, you need to actually LOOK at it to do something like pause music or change the album.

A better SoC usually means better power efficiency, where the speed means it can get through tasks faster under the same wattage, so it helps battery life.

Which is then completely blown by the screen anyways? It's not like you're tearing up complicated calculations on your watch. This makes sense on other devices but not so much on a watch. My Garmin lasts a week with the screen always on, several hours of GPS on and music playing during workouts. The most draining thing is music.

Yes but those screen features are what some people ask for (and always on can be disabled).

The watch also does do quite a bit of processing on device, especially cellular ones. It's quite a different beast than the Garmin, even though they have crossover

The functionality. I can use it as a flashlight, call, dictate messages, listen to music without phone, control my phone camera, use it for 2FA, map navigation, notifications with images and control smart home stuff. And yes, much of this convenience is due to the walled garden. I never had issues reading the screen, which I did have with my color screen pebble.

I can do most of that on my Garmin. Really only stuff that requires mic is not doable because it doesn't have a mic. And I guess notifications "with images". Heck some of it like 2FA I did on my Pebble!

I can’t compare with the Garmin, but the Pebble experience was subpar. I stopped wearing mine after a few weeks and gifted them to my mother after a while (she loved the pebbles but had constant issues with connectivity on Android). On the other hand, I expected to return my Apple Watch (it was an impulse buy due to a discount). But it really grew on me. It’s actually a “it just works” product (which I can’t say of a lot of Apple products these days). A friend of mine has a Garmin, but afaik he can’t do much with notifications. On the other hand I have quick replies, voice to text or depending on the app quick actions. That’s just not in the same ballpark. Do I need it? No. But it’s really convenient once you got used to it. I don’t know how many times I set the timer with Siri because my hands were full or dirty. If a second SIM card wasn’t so pricey in Germany I would probably get one and leave my mobile at home most of the time.

Yeah, quick replies only work if you have Android with Garmin and other smart watches because Apple doesn't let them.

The only thing I really hate about the Garmin is that they kneecap CJK support by region locking it.

> If a second SIM card wasn’t so pricey in Germany I would probably get one and leave my mobile at home most of the time.

This reminds me: it's silly that the Apple Watch eSIM has to be from the same provider as one's iPhone, and some providers which offer a phone eSIM don't support provisioning it for the Apple Watch, and vice versa.

> I put my watch on the charger whenever I go to sleep.

One of the things that always confused me about the Apple Watch (and other smartwatches) is that they market them as sleep tracking devices, but if you do use it for that purpose then I'm not sure when you're supposed to charge it. I guess you could charge it during a morning (or evening) shower but is ~30 minutes a day of charging enough?

> I guess you could charge it during a morning (or evening) shower but is ~30 minutes a day of charging enough?

As someone who does this, yes. (It's more like twice a day, roughly ~30 minutes each.)

If it helps, I also usually turn on cinema mode on my Series 5 before I go to sleep.

You can set up sleep timings in the watch app on iPhone and the watch will automatically enter sleep mode in that range. It’ll mute notifications etc. as well, and give you a sweet notification on your iPhone when it’s done charging.

I charge it for 30 minutes while I get ready for bed and for 15 minutes in the morning while I dress and brush my teeth. For the other 23 hours and 15 minutes I wear it. I’ve yet to see it dip below 30% (except for days when I do all day hikes and have my outdoors map + gps tracking on the watch).

So I could probably make do with just the 30 minute charge in the evening.

Before Apple Watch I used (in order) a Jawbone Up, a Fitbit don’t know the name and a Garmin Vivofit. All three are by far way crummier than an Apple Watch. Both in comfort, build quality and functionality.

I love my Apple Watch but the battery life thing is annoying because I do want to wear it to bed so the alarm can fire without waking a sleeping companion.

I know you said you don't care about camping, but I have to point out it's simply not as big a problem as people like to imagine either. I take a battery to charge my phone for maps anyway. The big difference between charging my watch camping, and charging my watch at home, is when I'm camping, I put it on the charger and take it off when it hits 80%. I don't just leave it there while I sleep.

5-8 days on 1 or 2 powerbanks is normal. Most people hiking more than that are going to find somewhere to stop and charge (and restock food) at least that often anyway. Truly hitting wilderness for 2+ weeks is the actual edge case where I'd want to leave my watch at home.

The sleep monitor is amazing this doesn't work for me.

Pebble was a lot of fun for tech people who wanted a minimalistic watch, but the Apple Watch is in a different league altogether. The two aren't really comparable.

There may be a niche market for low power, hackable, e-ink watches with minimal functionality, but the size of that market is orders of magnitudes small than what companies like Apple are addressing.

Pebble ultimately fizzled out because the demand just wasn't there. It might be possible for an indie company to make something similar if they focus on staying lean and small, but it's difficult to cater to niche audiences with small TAMs where the barrier to entry gets lower every year.

I had both the original Pebble and the Pebble Time. The battery life, always-on screen, and readability in the sun made for an incredibly useful experience. After my Pebble Time broke, rather than switching to another smart watch I got a simple "dumb" watch.

Frankly I don't think I'll wear another smart watch that isn't a Pebble, which means I don't think I'll get another smart watch.

You should look at Garmin. They have models with battery life measured in weeks, not hours like the Apple watch. My 3+ year old 645 still gets 6 days of battery life.

I bought an Instinct about a month ago and love it. I like the G-Shock aesthetic which I know isn't for everyone but it's everything I want in a watch. The battery life is amazing as you said. I charge it once a week and even regularly using GPS for fitness tracking it's usually at around 40% (it can be extended further by using a GPS mode that polls less frequently). The interface is responsive and straightforward (and button based instead of touch which I personally prefer). Like a G-Shock it's waterproof and appears to be near indestructible. I can't see myself wanting to replace it any time soon.

I'm another Instinct fan, absolutely love this watch. Its just the right balance of smart watch features while not compromising on being an actual watch. I think the only real weakness is the Garmin software itself but its still decent.

Sadly most smart watches seem to be heading the direction of just being a tiny phones with apps and crap that I'll never need and the segment of people who are just looking for a few concise features in something durable and stable will eventually have no options

I use a Garmin Tactix Bravo in tactical situations and it's brilliant! I think the battery lasts about two weeks.

Still loving my Pebble, but sad as I've watched the battery life dwindle to ~4 days. I even put my phone in airplane mode overnight, which has extended it a bit. Does anyone else have any tips on how to make a Time Steel last?

(I considered putting the Pebble into airplane mode, but it seems to be less reliable reconnecting to the phone if I do this.)

What do Pebble-lovers get if they don't want an Apple Watch? I was hopeful about the Fossil hybrid smartwatches, but the UI just wasn't there (two clicks to see more of a message?). Garmin is on my list, but they have so many models I can't tell which ones are best, or where they are in their upgrade cycles.

I recently replaced the battery in my Pebble Time Round. Replacements are on iFixIt. It's not easy, but not impossible either. For me, it's well worth another 5+ years of use while I wait for someone, anyone, to make a decent competitor.

Awesome. How does it affect water resistance?

I re-sealed mine with Sugru. It is as waterproof as it was before, as far as I can tell. Unfortunately I used too much and some of it got squashed under the glass so it's slightly visible. It's really hard to use the correct (very small) amount. There are other adhesive options that I haven't tried.

I'm going to miss my Pebble when it finally dies. Still wearing my Kickstarter Pebble Time. One thing it did well was be a watch first, as opposed to a small phone on your wrist. Depending on your needs/expectations those are very different wearable experiences. Sure the nice OLED is great, but clearly that comes at the cost of battery life. This is especially notable if you use to wear dumb watches.

And BlackBerry was always the best for communications.

I think we're confusing 1) tech 2) product 3) marketing/positioning and 4) brand.

All of that together, Apple has a very powerful entrenched lead.

They can launch almost anything and own the category, the are firing on all pieces.

Google doesn't have either the supply chain, distribution or hardware-product discipline.

And who else is going take on Apple's machine?

So from a tech perspective, it's doubtful they are '10 years ahead' but from an operational perspective, it sure feels that way.

A refreshed version with a thin display bezel and NFC to pay with NFC and I'd be sold.

The timeline UI makes such much sense.

I don’t get why battery life is important beyond 24h. I just put the watch on its charger at night. Only downside is during traveling, one more thing to carry and possibly the watch won’t make it through excruciating international travel.

So it won’t matter to me if the watch lasts a day or a week, it’s off my wrist when I sleep and goes on it’s charger.

If you want to track your sleep that doesn't work so well

I never understood the point of tracking your sleep or even steps. It’s not like knowing that I had N hours of deep sleep will somehow change my sleep the following night. Same with steps, it’s pretty easy to understand without a tracker when you were active and when you weren’t.

I think people use them to: 1) figure out what's affecting their sleep quality, not necessarily just duration, and 2) trigger alarms within a window, rather than at a specific time, when the device registers that they're between REM sleep cycles so waking up to the alarm is less shocking and unpleasant, and 3) have an alarm or pager-duty-type alert that doesn't bother anyone in the bed with them.

What gets measured gets managed. Both my fitness and sleep improved after tracking.

At the start I was able to use the sleep tracking to troubleshoot sleep issues and improve. After that, it’s mostly a warning system for when I may need to nap later (and thus plan for it) or make sure to get to bed early.

The steps are also a fun social thing. My dad and I talk about them and have streaks of 10,000. If we handle our days well, that’s what we’d get anyway. But somedays, you slack. Being accountable to each other is a fun game and we walk more and are happier for it.

The key to this kind of tracking is you mostly don’t think of it. It happens automatically in the background.

For me, it's the nags (e.g. Garmin's 'time to be active') that make it worthwhile to get me out of my groove. Also, the sleep tracking includes things such as SpO2 measurement, which can help one see if changing sleep positions makes a difference. I feel somewhat confident in saying that my Garmins have likely extended my life by a few years.

Everyone says this without trying it. I wear my Apple Watch to sleep. In the morning I shower and charge it. It is fully charged and lasts till next morning.

No problems here either. Lately I just wear it in the shower and charge it for a while when I sit down at my desk to work. It charges fast enough and I don't miss out on any activity tracking while I'm typing away at my desk.

I plug my phone in to charge at the same time. It's really not a big deal.

The only time it might matter is if I was doing a weekend camping trip or something, at which point the connected features of the Apple watch are less useful and a minimalistic Garmin would make more sense.

You missed their meaning. They meant that taking your watch off overnight to charge it gets in the way of sleep tracking.

Edit: People aren't reading carefully. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27321770 clearly means what I've stated and then the parent says that they must not have tried charging their watch at some other time.

Several years ago I did some research (published paper here: http://kentlyons.net/pubs/dumbwatch-iswc15.pdf) and one of the findings I thought was interesting was there were 3 groups of people that implied different battery needs. One seemed similar to what you describe: people that took their watch off at night (so could charge it then). Another group wore their watch 24/7. And the final group which I wasn't expecting, but made sense in retrospect, was people that only wore their watch when out of the house. When they got home they'd take it off like setting down their keys.

I’m T1 diabetic and use my watch for monitoring my glucose levels. I wear it 100% of the time, aside from showering when it charges. Charging quickly and having a minimum of 24hrs of charge is really important to me. Apple Watch hits both of those.

Do you have a separate accessory for monitoring glucose? I'm really looking forward to the Series 7 which is rumoured to have blood glucose monitoring.

Yes, I use a Dexcom G6. If the rumors of the Series 7 having a glucose monitor and a blood pressure monitor on it are true, that would be incredible. They’re surely working on core body temperature monitoring too!

To me, smartwatches are about making my life more convenient (not taking my phone out of my pocket). So any inconvenience is going to be a big deal.

Having gone from a Wear OS watch with ~1d battery life to a hybrid e-ink watch with ~2w battery life I don't think I'll ever go back, even though I'm giving up features. You already mentioned travel, but an even bigger issue for me was that if my watch didn't get charged overnight for whatever reason (watch wasn't sitting correctly on the charger, fell asleep with my watch on, etc.), I'd basically have a paperweight on my wrist the next day. And having to disable features (always-on display) to get my watch to last through the day always felt silly.

Overall, it's just one less thing to worry about on a daily basis. If I ever see a low battery warning on my watch, I know that it'll still last for more than a day.

This. A smartwatch must be a watch first. A watch is small, always-on, and recharged rarely. Most smartwatches aren't - short batteries, screens that you have to shake to wake, and large.

A smartphone must be a phone first. A phone is large with a comfortable earpiece, has large easy-to-press physical numbers, and is plugged into the wall so it doesn't require recharging.

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