Experiments validate the possibility of helium rain inside Jupiter and Saturn | Hacker News Reader

Experiments validate the possibility of helium rain inside Jupiter and Saturn

phys.org

50 pointsdnetesn20 comments

Fascinating, the possibilities for such different patterns/behavior of space+energy+matter at different pressures, temperatures (scales) etc! There is so much left to discover here.

I do love the idea of potential forms of life in the universe that might exist in nearly-incomparable forms to our familiar earth/sun/dna/carbon-etc-based ways. Like organisms made of gas, or light-years-accross, or at a million-times the pressure/temperature.. could any type of life ever exist in or on a star or black hole? (there was a recent HN post about 10^30 micro-organisms that are likely living off radiation-based splitting of water in the rock deep underground, kinda suggests life will go anywhere that it can!)

I also hugely enjoyed this related detour I found when I looked up something mentioned in the article: 'Black Hot Ice' (Ice XVIII)', a newly discovered state of matter! (surely been submitted to HN already I expect)

https://www.quantamagazine.org/black-hot-superionic-ice-may-...

> could any type of life ever exist in or on a star or black hole?

if you like science fiction, you may enjoy Robert Forward's books "Dragon's egg" and "Starquake". Later, read "Diaspora" by Greg Egan.

TIL Ice IX is a real thing, though less catastrophic than expected

What would this even look like if I was standing in the middle of it?

And what would you be standing on/in?

Isn't Helium quite expensive here on Earth? You could literary line your pockets.

Not particularly. Natural gas extraction typically just throws the H2 away.

Do you mean He? H2 is Hydrogen gas which is a different element.

I thought we had a limited supply of helium on the planet, seems strange that it just be left go, too expensive to retain?

Helium: A byproduct of the natural gas industry

https://geology.com/articles/helium/

Very little helium is present in Earth's atmosphere. It is such a light element that Earth's gravity cannot hold it. When present at Earth's surface, unconfined helium immediately begins rising until it escapes the planet. That's why party balloons rise!

The helium that is produced commercially is obtained from the ground. Some natural gas fields have enough helium mingled with the gas that it can be extracted at an economical cost. A few fields in the United States contain over 7% helium by volume. Companies that drill for natural gas in these areas produce the natural gas, process it and remove the helium as a byproduct.

Most of the helium that is removed from natural gas is thought to form from radioactive decay of uranium and thorium in granitoid rocks of Earth's continental crust. As a very light gas, it is buoyant and seeks to move upward as soon as it forms.

It's a decay product of uranium. IIRC it was discovered by putting some uranium ore in an upside down glass completely filled with water and noticing that over time gas accumulated at "top."

So it's limited and escapes the earths gravity well when vented to the atmosphere but we're unlikely to actually run out any time soon.

Helium was first detected in 1868 as spectral lines in the Sun which matched no known element on Earth. Hence "helium", from "helios", for the Sun.

The element was first encountered on Earth as a decay product from uranium, as you describe, in 1995, and found to match the earlier spectral line.

It is still on the planet, just at a different altitude.

*He, typo!

It would be easier to scrape it from the top of our own atmosphere, as that's where I assume most helium ends up.

Probably not: https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/78586/can-helium...

It escapes to space.

> Isn't Helium quite expensive here on Earth?

It was, until Republicans forced the depletion by sale of the US helium stockpile in 1995: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_Privatization_Act_of_19...

The result was a market crash (because the stuff was sold for less than market value), it was only sort of fixed in 2013... which then led to a shortage in 2019 that got so massive it impacted science, which in turn only got resolved by corona killing off the demand for balloon helium and massively reducing the demand of industry (https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.2020060...).

> Republicans forced the depletion by sale of the US helium stockpile in 1995

This is an odd way of phrasing this. Not just because the bill was passed in 96, not 95; but it was signed by a dem president, passed unanimously in the Senate and via voice vote in the House.

So it’s not so much that “Republicans” forced it as there was a US law passed. There was no contention by political lines and it seemed all political parties supported the law.

The action was no more “forced by Republicans” than the 2013 act that “sort of fixed” [0]. (Also passed unanimously and signed by a dem president)

There’s plenty of politically contentious stuff in the world so that we don’t need to present history in inaccurate terms.

[0] https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/house-bill/527

Helium Act of 1925, 50 USC § 161, is a United States statute drafted for the purpose of conservation, exploration, and procurement of helium gas. The Act of Congress authorized the condemnation, lease, or purchase of acquired lands bearing the potential of producing helium gas. It banned the export of helium, for which the US was the only important source, thus forcing foreign airships to use hydrogen lift gas.

Imagine the counterfactual where the Helium Act of 1925 was not passed and the Hindenburg was using helium instead of highly flammable hydrogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium_Act_of_1925

Hindenburg designer Hugo Eckener sought to use helium, a non-flammable lifting gas. However, the United States, which had a monopoly on the world supply of helium and feared that other countries might use the gas for military purposes, banned its export, and the Hindenburg was reengineered. After the Hindenburg disaster, American public opinion favored the export of helium to Germany for its next great zeppelin, the LZ 130, and the law was amended to allow helium export for nonmilitary use. After the German annexation of Austria in 1938, however, Secretary of Interior Harold Ickes refused to ink the final contract.

https://www.history.com/news/the-hindenburg-disaster-9-surpr...

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