‘Bomb Threat' That Justified Belarus Hijacking Came 24 Minutes After | Hacker News Reader

‘Bomb Threat' That Justified Belarus Hijacking Came 24 Minutes After

thedailybeast.com

233 pointsmaratc77 comments

A good friend of mine left Czecheslovakia in 1968 to study in Switzerland.

After Russia "liberated" the country[1] citizens living abroad were ordered back to the motherland. For him this was a really tough decision, since people who refused were criminalized and he would have faced jail if he returned to the country.

He told me that whenever he went from Zurich to Vienna he took the train, which takes 9 - 12 hours compared to the flight, which takes roughly an hour.

His reasoning was that if the plane, for whatever reason, is diverted to Bratislava he would be truely and royally fucked.

At the time he told me the story I thought he was a bit paranoid. Looking at what happened in Belarus I'm no more so sure. And he was just a potential convict not a prominent disident.

Thankfully he could return after the velvet revolution[2] and he now lives in Prague.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Pact_invasion_of_Czecho...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velvet_Revolution

In this case, though, the flight from Greece to Lithuania went directly over Belarus. If I were Roman Protasevich, I would definitely not want to fly in the airspace of the country that wanted to get me.

There is no path from Zurich to Vienna that flies over Czech airspace. Furthermore, during the Cold War an act of a Warsaw Pact country hijacking a Nato country's plane over Nato airspace would have very likely led to something at least as bad as the Cuban Missile Crisis, if not WWIII.

Hijacking the plane was not really a tought. But what happens if Vienna airport needs to close its runways (say it's blocked by a broken plane or an accident) and the plane needs to be diverted?

Bratislava is just 55km from Vienna. It's an obvious choice if the plane needs to divert to a different airport.

It's not an unreasonable fear.

Reminds me of this story which had a great documentary but extremely sad ending of 7 young people trying to flee communist Georgia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot_Flight_6833

Here is the documentary by a local Georgian director that stuck in my head for a long time:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0818087/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUkluq8oPvY

These were kids of the Georgian intelligentsia, including trained doctors, painters, and an actor, doing something naive and stupid (hijacking a plane to go to the nearest capitalist country). It turned out even the pilots were armed, shot at them, and turned the flight right back to Georgia.

The head of local KGB then got Georgian soldiers to shoot up the plane "so it wouldn't leave", killing the pilots "by accident" and injuring innocent passengers. The plane was then raided by Soviet Alpha group (basically their US Delta Force).

The communist leader of Georgia at the time wanted to make an example of them and gave death sentences, even despite their ages, except of course the one girl got 15yrs. The parents didn't find out they were executed by the state for five years (nor did the media obviously).

The desire to leave the Iron Curtain countries lead to some crazy stories and near suicidal attempts. And these stories were quickly forgotten.

>The communist leader of Georgia at the time wanted to make an example of them and gave death sentences, even despite their ages. The parents didn't find out they were executed by the state for five years (nor did the media obviously).

These two sentences appear to contradict each other. Why would their executions be low-key if they were to be made examples of?

And that’s how you spot a made up story.

Plus that Georgia as a country didn’t exist back in the time of this dirty, and its „communist leader“ was just a minor Soviet apparatchik, who couldn’t make such decision on his own.

There is no path from Zurich to Vienna that flies over Czech airspace, but Vienna is so close to Bratislava that (if there was a compelling need for it), a more intelligent adversary than the current Belarusian government could devise a plan to divert the plane onto Czechoslovak airspace and force it to land. Probably overly cautious to hedge against that possibility (just like it was not cautious enough on Pratasievich's part to take a flight that takes it over Belarus's airspace without any diversions). But I wouldn't fly out of Vienna if I were a prominent Czechoslovak emigre. A little too geographically close for comfort.

The plane was in Belarusian airspace so it isn't really comparable to "a Nato country's plane over Nato airspace" but if what happened in and around Cuba didn't start WW3 then a single plane diverted (and maybe a dissident or two kidnapped) would hardly register in the big picture. In fact several planes did get diverted and some even shot down during the Cold War and it rarely caused any further incidents.

Planes can be diverted for other reasons; serious failure of something on board, bomb scare at the destination airport (that is how the worst air disaster ever on Tenerife happened [0]), very bad weather over the destination etc.

In that case, Bratislava would be a possible backup airport, especially if the plane did not have much fuel.

For regular Western citizens, that would be just a slight annoyance, but anyone who escaped the Soviet Bloc without formally parting ways with their country of origin (that could be done, but not many people did, [1]) would be royally fucked. Several years of prison and eternal pariah status after discharge would follow. (No good jobs for you, traitor, go dig trenches, even if you are a doctor.)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenerife_airport_disaster

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconcilee

Thanks for the Reconcilee link. Very interesting.

At first I thought why didn't Otakar (my friend, who's heart is really Czech and who went through immense suffering and pain about not being able to go home) apply for that status?

After reading the article it's totally clear that that would have never been an option for him.

Switzerland and Austria were not NATO members.

Czechoslovak political emigrants quite often moved far away from the Iron Curtain (e.g. from Munich, Vienna to Britain, Canada, Australia) "just in case".

StB (the secret police, a Czechoslovak equivalent of the better-known Stasi) definitely had capabilities to abduct someone, but the longer the way back, the more complicated the task was. They probably would not bother snatching you in Sydney. Vienna was tempting, though.

The „excuse“ to hijack is probably bad on purpose, to add insult to injury.

Same goes for chosing a name of Jewish orgin (Ahmed Yurlanov) as the alledged sender of the bomb threat.

It‘s done basically to tease the EU, saying „look at how obviously fake our pretense to hijack your plane was, and you still won‘t do anything about it!“

Same story with the two Russian agents who murdered Skripal in the UK. When they were found on security cams walking around the cathedral (where Skripal was later murdered at) and questioned, they said they were a gay couple (from Russia of all places!) that were just on a touristic visit. They even cited that the cathedral is one if the most special because it‘s tower is built in a special way, ridiculous.

Again, it‘s adding insult to injury.

I thought the same at the time. Also the way they tried to murder Skripal, same like they did earlier with Alexander Litvinenko: by poisoning with Polonium.

They could have chosen many other ways which would look less spectacular and wouldn't put the suspicion so obviously on Russia. But obviously it was there intention that it was clear that they were behind it: both to scare any remaining dissidents and to impress some part of the Russian population with their power.

Skripal was poisoned with Novichok, not polonium.

If you don't actually know you're looking for a radioactive substance, poisoning someone with polonium might not be so "in your face" after all. They may have been going off previous successes (which, by definition, we wouldn't know about).

Just to clarify, Sergei Skripal is still alive, the assassination failed but instead did kill an unrelated woman later named Dawn Sturgess.

i'm going with Hanlon's razor here

This exactly how it is. The way they covered up murders during protests is very descriptive of their ability to do such things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Alexander_Taraikovsky

Surely Hanlon's "don't assume malice" falls down a bit in state sponsored assassinations?

Yes, but when the question is whether they’re deliberately giving the impression they’re incompetent to add insult to injury, I’m inclined to assume they’re just plain incompetent.

But they do that a lot in other contexts, like using novichok agents or traceable radioisotopes for state assassinations, then 'denying' it was them.

i mean the "getting caught out of own incompetence" part of course. a recent example was Navalny's call to his poisoner from the FSB. This was obviously NOT an intended leak

>When they were found on security cams walking around the cathedral (where Skripal was later murdered at) and questioned, they said they were a gay couple (from Russia of all places!) that were just on a touristic visit.

From what I remember Russia suggested that they might have been a gay couple, a claim which they rebutted almost more fervently than they did the claim that they were spies.

I figured at the time that along with the cringey interview they did were probably both punishments for being shit at their job.

>They even cited that the cathedral is one if the most special because it‘s tower is built in a special way, ridiculous.

It is a decent cathedral to be fair. Salisbury is very much the kind of place that appeals to Russians - hence why Skripal retired there.

> Salisbury is very much the kind of place that appeals to Russians

Why? I lived not very far from Salisbury for much of my adult life and rarely encountered Russians.

Russians have a thing for quintessential English chic things. It's the rosy image of the country from old Soviet English language textbooks coming to life.

It's a poor country and the UK makes it very hard to get a visa. Many more would come if it were easier.

I'm from not too far away also and to be honest Salisbury bores the hell out of me.

> Same goes for chosing a name of Jewish orgin (Ahmed Yurlanov) as the alledged sender of the bomb threat.

Ahmed is Arabic, while Yurlanov is a generic Slavic name. I think the intent was to communicate Chechen not Jewish.

Not generic slavic surname at all but central asian/caucasus origin. Other than that you are right.

> It‘s done basically to tease the EU, saying „look at how obviously fake our pretense to hijack your plane was, and you still won‘t do anything about it!“

At least EU closed their airspace.

https://mobile.twitter.com/flightradar24/status/139752053792...

Ahmed Yurlanov is sounds more like a Chechen or Ingush name.

Russian spies and their coverups != Belarussian KGB\OAC and their coverups.

Russians have the ability act bold on purpose because of their oil and money. They have a massive propaganda machine that will scream all kinds of bs in all directions. Paid politicians all over the world will also side with Russia.

Belarus, does not have that kind of leverage. They have no propaganda machine to create coverups and have to act sneaky. Like with Pavel Sheremet's murder [3] in Ukraine, they organized it well enough to avoid detection up until 2021. Or a Minsk metro bombing [5] where they just grabbed some dudes and executed them not even a year later. They often fail ofc. They failed with a cover up of Alexander Taraikovsky's [0] murder and later with Raman Bondarenko's [1]. How they failed with staging a coup attempt with russian PMC soldiers shortly before the election[2] and released all "terrorists" a few months later without any punishment or comments [6].

Do not over sophisticate these people. Belarusian KGB today, in general, is not what it used to be even 20 years ago. Times of people dissapearing into thin air (Zaharenko, Zavadski, Gonchar to name a few [4]) are gone, just like most of the people who were able to pull off stuff like that. Today's state of it is due to negative selection where the most loyal get to the top, and not the most talented or capable.

[0] https://voicesfrombelarus.medium.com/what-we-know-about-the-...

[1] https://www.rferl.org/a/belarus-bandarenka-lukashenka/311691...

[2] https://www.rferl.org/a/russian-diplomats-meet-detained-vagn...

[3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ukraine-belarus-journalis...

[4] https://www.amnesty.org/download/Documents/120000/eur4901320...

[5] https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/minsk-bombers-executed-...

[6] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/20/world/europe/belarus-russ...

Your narrative about Russian PMC staging coup attempt (link 2) isn't true. That was failed SBU operation.

http://euromaidanpress.com/2021/02/12/the-wagner-affair-in-b...

Not russian PMC staging, but state using PMC presence as a proof of a coup attempt. They used it to spin the narrative that protests were planned and funded from abroad.

>Belarus, does not have that kind of leverage.

Apparently it does now as Russia is forbidding EU fights into its airspace if they avoid Belarussian airspace. Russia and Belarus have disagreements, most of which seem to be due to the egos of their respective leaders, but it's foolish for the rest of the world to not recognize the special relationship between the two. Belarus is like the loud mouth scrawny kid on the playground who stirs up trouble because he knows his oversize muscular brother nearby will back him up in a fight.

> Again, it‘s adding insult to injury.

I think, here it is a case of overestimating their intelligence level.

Goondas running ex-USSR states are polar opposites of Western stereotype of "brilliant villains." For example Putin is said to be comically bad with arithmetics. Nasarbayev's verbal eloquence is so poor that regime lieutenants themselves often go on censoring him. Belarusian KGBs probably don't even know from where that Hamas comes from.

I'd say "shrewd, yes — smart, no" but the saying also goes "Folly is a more dangerous enemy to the good than evil."

Skripal is not dead?

No. He recovered from the poisoning.

"Russia is poisoning people with Novichok" is this lovely meme that everyone seems to accept as Gospel; doesn't it seem they'd have had more success, at least? The targets and the evidence and the circumstances surrounding these incidents aren't as clear cut as the common interpretation, I think.

"Novichok" is a great boogeyman; no one's ever seen any but apparently everyone knows what it is, anyway.

Just because they're bad at it doesn't mean they aren't doing it. And that's assuming their intent is actually to kill, and not to just send a message.

>no one's ever seen any but apparently everyone knows what it is, anyway

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent#History_and_dis...

IMHO regimes like in Belarus or Turkmenistan is so dysfunctional and live in delusional bubble, they generate quality comedy material for outside world, we don't need sketchy spy or political satire anymore, just read the news.

They aren't dysfunctional in the sense you imagine. Their state is fighting for survival in the face of foreign agents and interference. They are in a weak position to defend themselves so you see them lashing out in less subtle ways. Civilians are unfortunately caught in the crossfire.

Also, er, fighting for survival against its own people.

Correct

> Civilians are unfortunately caught in the crossfire.

Not a crossfire, but a very directed one. It's critical to such regimes to never let anything the West does happen without it hitting their own civilians.

If the population see Western sanctions benefiting them, and visibly harming the regime, people will be ready to take bigger sacrifices, knowing that the regime will loose much more than they do.

It is equally critical for the West to communicate loud, and clear to Belarusian people that they are doing those actions to support their resistance, and not just because they want to hit Lukasenka.

While I don't disagree with you the key sentence is "outside world".

If you happen to live in the "inside world" of such despicable excuses of human trash then the situation is rather less funny.

Political discussions is walking really thin line :)

I meant to say, world outside of group of people behind the cogs of regime.

> word régime originates as a synonym for any type of government, modern usage has given it a negative connotation, implying an authoritarian government or dictatorship.

'Inside world' would mean inside government. Outside world - civilians, even inside said countries.

I meant the entire country of Belarus with "inside world". And I hope you didn't get the impression that I'm dumping on you.

Seeing Lukashenko in one of his ridiculous uniforms, for example, certainly is pure comedy. But if you're imprisoned by his thugs it's far less funny. That's what I meant to express.

> like in Belarus or Turkmenistan...delusional bubble

Uhh...we don't need to look far geographically and only a few months back in time to see something similar closer to home.

It's not a comedy if you share a border with them, and EU does.

It's tragicomedy. Their justifications are the comedy, while their attacks on people and operating a nuclear power plant so close to the border is the reason for worry.

Kid in high school did this - called in a bomb threat _after_ getting his parents to excuse him from school for the bomb threat. Cheeseball dictators end up like disturbed high school boys.

https://archive.md/843S6

> Leaving aside the fact that Hamas isn’t for blowing up commercial airliners, the identity it chose for a Hamas representative was bizarre. Ahmed Yurlanov?

a thread with more highlights: https://twitter.com/badc0fee/status/1397939894077505546

Is there a not paywalled version?

https://archive.is/843S6

Firefox reader view

del

I guess it needs to store your mails to show them to you. This includes your sent mails so protonmail can show them to you in your "sent" view.

The claim is that they only store emails encrypted with a key for which they don't have the password.

The content of the email may be encrypted, the metadata by definition cannot be. If the people orchestrating this "bomb threat" only sent out one or two emails, it's trivial for the email hoster to check the send timestamps of these.

Yeah, mentioned this in another commentm, at least SOME metadata is needed, in particular the date, so you know how to sort them. I see that you can search by sender for received messages (not a big proton user), so I guess it does store that unencrpyted as well

Not necessarily. You can encrypt the search value clientside and search by value in its encrypted form.

The logs of what emails were sent is probably stored by the email servers, as well as, probably, metadata about when emails were sent, if not to whom, is stored in the db unencrypted.

Information on when an email is sent, transmitted, and received is part of the email header, which is shown in part by MUAs by default, the full transcript being shown by good MUAs on request.

amateurs XD

For anyone still lusting to start bombing Belarus into compliance, Russia announced that any European Union flight that avoids Belarus airspace is prohibited from entering Russian airspace. Belarus and Russia are connected at the hip. Don't backdoor us into a nuclear holocaust because you think this is Libya or the Balkans. There are very dangerous escalations possible here if we're not careful. Are you really willing to kill thousands, millions, or even hundreds of millions over this issue? Belarus might as well be Russia in this situation. Would you advocate for bombing Russia over something similar? If not, learn more about the relationship between Russia and Belarus before pushing us for a course of action that could quickly get out of hand.

It's good manners to refute posts instead of downvoting based on what you wish was or was not true.

It seems HN has been downtrending ( no pun intended ) this way.

This pattern is evident in posts criticizing the social justice climate dominating tech. Meanwhile, ad hominem attacks against Donald Trump are tolerated and even encouraged ( my very post here suggesting that ad hominem attacks are a logical fallacy would likely be downvoted without refutation, only further proving the point )

Wow, they must of had a really good model that could predict a bomb threat that far in advance!

https://twitter.com/MoonofA/status/1397863844740055052

Likely a timezone issue. Protonmail is in Switzerland (GMT+2) Minsk is (GMT+3) but could also depend on server clock setting on either side.

Protonmail confirms[0] mail was sent after the plane was diverted.

[0] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/email-bomb-threat-sent-...

That makes no sense. Aside the confirmation from protonmail of the timestamp, that's not the proton mail UI, so it's at the destination. The timestamp says "Sunday 23...", so it's way more likely to be in the local timezone.

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