Americans are on the move, but their stuff doesn’t always follow

Did the same sort of move in 2015 with a Suitcase, a backpack and a snowboard bag. Extremely liberating.

I moved from Scotland to Finland, which involved a few suitcases on a plane, and a pallet of stuff going by sea.

We sold almost everything we owned prior to the move. The things that were carried were things like personal possessions with significant history or memories. Sounds like we approached it in a very similar way to you.

There are definitely moments where I think "I need to repair this pipe, I have a pipe-cutter in my toolbox", then I recall that the toolbox didn't get moved with us. But there aren't many things that I miss.

I am currently planning a move from Austria back the US and I have decided to sell or dispose of the vast majority of my belongings.

I did less of this moving from the US to Austria and when it came time to move this time I realised that I had a significant pile of boxes which, while opened, went unused in the twenty years I've lived here. I also have an extensive library which, while I read the books when I bought them, I have not returned to the vast majority of them.

I'm still sort of conflicted about this because it's provoking a lot of complex emotions that I was not particularly prepared for.

I moved from the US to Norway in 2013. I brought nearly 2 suitcases and mailed a tea set. That's it. Everything else I gave away, and for the most part, I'm happy I did that.

But to be fair, I moved because I married a local, and they already had some stuff and I was able to replace other stuff as I wanted.

Don’t worry. You’ll never forget that feeling of showing up at the airport with all of (what’s left of) your possessions. My wife and I did that ten years ago. I remember those final hours in San Francisco and SFO as crisply as the birth of a child.

Emigrating is one of those adulting on steroids things. For those who’ve never done it, there no way to describe how intense it is: the highs, the lows, etc. Doesn’t matter if you are fluent in the destination language; it just is.

My wife and I have been living like this for the last 10+ years; furnished apartments, short-term contracts, day-to-day essentials purchased locally and sold secondhand when we move.

At first I found it incredibly freeing - and I still do, mostly - but over time I’ve developed this almost nostalgic feeling for a home. Some place that’s filled with my own stuff where I can at least mentally ground myself. The idea of actually having one still seems almost overwhelming, but the concept sounds nice.

Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, or because my family is, or maybe an unsettled life just gets to you after a while.

"The things you own end up owning you."

I'm beginning to understand this more and more lately. The problem is with owning things you can't just replace. This could be either because you can't afford to replace it, like many people's cars, or that it holds sentimental value. Those things end up owning you. If your car breaks down you have to fix it. If you break a cherished plate, you cry.

I'm 35 and I still use plates and cutlery that I took from my last student house I moved from when I was 25. The house had accumulated a ton of this stuff over the years and we'd put most of it away in a cupboard. I took some of the better looking stuff. I fully expect all of this stuff to last the rest of my life. If some disaster happens and they all break, I'll replace them with more generic plates and cutlery I don't care about.

I think if you can resist accumulating stuff you care about, you will be far happier. Don't attach sentimental value to things. They are just things. Don't buy things you can't afford to replace outright if you need to, like cars. They quickly become liabilities. A big loss of stuff can be very rewarding as it reminds you of what really matters in life. But you should resist getting into the same situation again.

When people do these moves between countries and take their belongings (unlike the OP), do they have to pay tax or tariffs to the destination country? Or prove that they paid tax on their belongings already?

I did the same five years ago (different locations). The one thing I miss was the blankets I had before moving, I just have never found great replacements. Is there anything you realized was harder to replace than you thought?

I did that moving from US to Switzerland for a postdoc with two children age 2 and 4. We did leave a tote or two of sentimental items at a relative's house. Good times haha.

Edit: And though stressful, it gave me a different perspective of, for instance, people who walk thousands of miles from Honduras with children.

I know this feeling, having moved from the US to Austria, where I lived for 3 years, and moved back, basically selling everything I had twice.

There's a shift in perspective with possessions. I'm less attached to anything, but at the same time, I appreciate the nice things I own more. And there's definitely a lot more, stronger opinions, on what I want, and what should be a part of my "home".

A bunch of opinions have sharpened unpredictably. Like, I hate grass. I don't want something I have to build an irrigation system to maintain. I like owning a single family home, but I don't want it do be this 'castle' where I'm totally isolated from my neighborhood. I hate big garage doors in front. The front of the house is for the doorway and a porch. The car has its place to the side.

Had I not had to rebuild from scratch a couple of times, not sure I'd be this focused.

Moved from Bolivia to Miami with wife and kids with all I owned as well.

I recall that time as oddly freeing. I had my pick of how to build my new home. New beds, dining tables, the works.

We started out with salvation army stuff because we didn't want to commit to expensive things without even knowing the marketplace here. We were TRULY new to the US. Didn't know a single store except Walmart (from what we saw online).

Now we have a very comfortable life but some days I do wish I could light my belongings on fire and start fresh.

These days I see things I purchase as liabilities. I bought this super nintendo classic, oh now I have to take care of this thing. There it sits collecting dust. I don't buy many knick-knacks anymore.

How much did shipping to Africa cost?

This makes me think of the idea of losing one's phone or laptop and not worrying because the hardware was super cheap, and your data is completely safe and transferable.

But for the idea to transfer over to personal belongings, there would have to be some sort of scanning of each personal item in one's home, to the point that AI and 3D printing could print off a perfect copy.

Let's imagine a good friend dies and all you have to remember him is a handmade gift he gave you on your last b-day. Your home catches fire but you can print off a perfect copy. Do you care? And how much do you care?

Been moving 5 times in the last 5 years and this is what happened every time (mind you most of the time I was moving continent). This last time I just moved apartment in SF but still sold everything to be able to travel in between. Packed the car with everything we could and threw what we didn’t manage to sell.

I gotta say, it’s getting tiring to buy furniture (especially with the IKEA shortage) but the upside is that you get to get rid of a lot of the things you didn’t really need every time you move.

Also in SF, for some reasons, second hand is really expensive so you can sell stuff for the same price or even more sometimes.

Is there a service you used to do that? If so, could you please share?

I am thinking of moving out in about a year and I would love to donate my belongings to someone in less-developed world instead of donating it to places like Goodwill (and I'm afraid that they'll send most of my donation to landfill)

May I ask what third party services you use? I’m in a similar situation. I use Google Voice for my number, but wouldn’t mind a better alternative.

I would add that I had the same problem as a foreigner moving to the US. The number of services (both public and private) that require you to have a US phone number was both surprising and impressive.

Try staying in the US while not having a permanent address. We got booted from our car insurance.

> April 2020 I gave up on CA's leadership and bailed out of the state. Best decision ever.

I think you mean you cashed out :-)

I am glad your move worked. But for others I'd advise to not underestimate the importance of your life's continuity of narrative. Moving to NV broke that since it was simply because of lower taxes and that's not meaningful enough. When I lived in the Bay Area I had an identity, long time college buddies, neighbors who would knock on my door, I was a member of the tech and scientific research community, an angel investor, and I had visitors since so many people pass through the Bay Area. Now all I am is that rando millionaire next door who WFH and likes skiing.

Every morning I wake up and I do not recognize the man in the mirror. I disintegrated into a collection of discontinuous random stories that feel like they happened to someone else. It easily diminished my productivity by 10% which means this move didn't save me money.

Now that I want to move back to Cali the homes are priced much higher than when I left. Beware.

I understand feeling that way about some precious possessions, but you can’t trust a professional mover with _anything_ in your house? Sounds like you might be in a minority with possible trust issues.

Do you have children?

My assumption is that people do not have many friends nowadays to ask for help with loading that furniture. I am moving 25 miles away and there is no way I hire unseen 3rd party for that. Rent smaller van 2-3 times and do it relaxed by myself with some buddies and beer.

The beauty of the mutually beneficial contract. If your stuff doesn't arrive they don't get paid, or perhaps even keep their job. That's their incentive to not steal your stuff.

This sounds like something more of a North American issue

In other countries it is pretty common to hire people to do your move. Even Japan does that. Or, don't bother with stuff and rent furnished places.

> all your worldly possessions to some unseen third party

You mean like those storage facilities where people lock (and abandon) their stuff frequently? Yes, I wouldn't ship valuable stuff with them, for the most part, your furniture and posessions are valuable (in practice) only to yourself.

And while help from friends is cool, they're not "free work" per se you know. And there's a limit. I'm not helping you take a 3-seater sofa down a flight of stairs, sorry.

There are countless reasons for doing so.

One major one being that people don't/can't drive a massive truck to haul their possessions and would rather leave it in the hands of a professional.

Another one being that they're not driving to the place they're moving to, but instead taking a plane/boat/train/foot/bike to get there. Unless they charter private planes or boats, or pilot them on their own, it's a little unfeasible.

I would have said the same. But then I moved last year at the beginning of the pandemic. There were restrictions already in place in Germany. Basically you were only allowed to meet up with a very limited number of other households. So asking my friends to help out would have meant to also ask them to break the restrictions - and possibly endanger their health. It was a pandemic after all.

So I hired a moving company. Boy, I will never again move myself. Best service I could imagine. Everything done in half a day. No bothering of friends and relatives. No heavy lifting at all for me. Everything insured, so if something breaks, it will be replaced. All furniture in place in the new appartment. And it wasn't that expensive after all.

Unforunately sometimes you just don't have any choice.

Any also unfortunately it can end in less than ideal circumstances: during our move from UK to Croatia 2 boxes went "missing", one I couldn't have cared less about (except for the cost of replacing it), the other box however had irreplaceable items contained within.

Maybe if you used the Tokyo based Art Moving Center also known as Art Hikkoshi Center ( アート引越センター )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0RX59G2jaA

Seeing their rigour and discipline is like a visual ASMR video.

who has time to move furniture around?

this is what i do:

i hire the movers

i go to a restaurant to dine and work

i then go straight to the new location where things are getting unloaded

i even went on a 3 day trip once. i went to the airport and when i came back everything was moved to the new house.

this carried over to my cleaning lady. she almost always comes around when nobody's at home. the feeling that you get especially after a long trip coming home and everything's clean and tidy is priceless.

things like these are totally worth it imo.

Not sure where you are from but Americans have mind boggling amount of stuff. There are people in my neighborhood who have 3 car garages attached to their house and yet they park their cars in the driveway because the garages are full of junk.

Yes, I'll ask a few friends to help load my stuff into a van. Then onto a ship. Then they will, out of the goodness of their hearts, spend 30 - 60 days on the ship while it sails around the world, help me unload everything onto a van at the other end, drive potentially five hundred miles or more from the port to the final destination, unload everything, and then finally travel back home. Easy! And I know I've never sailed a ship in my life before, but how hard could it be to sail a ship 15 thousand miles?

And before you say "Well, just sell it and re-purchase it!", I personally have so many items that I want to keep that are not re-purchasable, either due to being out of print, or due to being limited edition, that they would never fit into the checked baggage allowance I'd get on a plane.

That's crazy talk from my point of view. The last time I moved home, it was a half-mile straight line distance and I'd as surely pay for movers to do that as move all the way across the country.

Getting sufficient boxes, tape, packing materials; wrapping items and putting them into boxes; loading boxes via elevators into a van, reversing the process; taking away all the packing materials ... so stressful and physically strenuous.

I'd throw money at that problem all day and all night.

I guess it depends on how attached you are to your worldly possessions and how much of your move you want to coordinate. Last time I moved, I hired a moving firm to move my stuff, except for a few personal items we moved myself in the car. If the moving truck burst into flames, I'd have been happy to get the insurance money and would replace the furniture (I paid extra for all-risk replacement value coverage, not the 50 cents/pound coverage they included for "free").

I didn't really want to drive a U-haul that far towing the car, and worry about stuff getting stolen at overnight stops, we took the scenic route and spent over a week, we had to cut our trip short by a day when the driver called to say he was there already and would be delivering tomorrow.

It was a pretty painless process, we used a service that gave us a few quotes online, and the company we chose supplied all of the labor to load/unload and hired a smaller shuttle truck because the apartment complex we were moving into couldn't fit an 18 wheeler.

No real loss or damage, just a few scratches on a couple pieces of wood furniture, didn't even bother trying to make a claim.

We priced one of the storage pods (they drop a container off, you load it yourself, then they take it to your destination), but it wasn't much cheaper than the moving company and we didn't really had a convenient place to put the container.

It's freeing in a weird way.

I always used to move myself. I had a small Toyota pickup (hilux type) and my method was anything that didn't fit in the bed to allow me to move in one trip was tossed. That was my way of making sure I didn't accumulate too much junk.

Then I took a job halfway across the country and relocation was part of the deal.

They came to my apartment, packed everything up in a few hours, and put it all in a moving van and then drove my truck onto the van. I got on a plane and my stuff arrived a few days later and was put into storage until I needed it. The entire process was so seamless, that I'd happily do it again.

Living in a hotel for a month while my stuff was in storage really drove home the point that I really had no attachment to my "stuff." The only thing I missed was having my weights, so I got a temporary gym membership instead.

Would love to here more. Aside from belongings, what was the process like to emigrate to New Zealand? What kind of work do you do? How did jobs work out?

How much did it take to move your stuff? From what I've seen this takes 10+k for even a modest amount of belongings

Scan everything asap

Couldn't you ask someone to mail it to you?

I threw away all of my college notebooks as soon as I graduated. But I can definitely understand some of your feelings here, too. I dutifully held onto them for four years, thinking there may be a time when I’d want to look back on them. At the end though, realizing I’d never looked back on them once, I just threw them away.

I’m sorry you never got to make that choice either way though. I can’t imagine how hard that is.

If it makes you feel any better. I kept that junk too for years (25+) after graduating (3 moves). They sat in a box doing nothing but taking up space in my home. On my last move I took what textbooks I could to the library (they did not want it, they already have 8 copies of that sort of thing). My notebooks I would open each one up and realize I had 0 idea what my notes meant. Like no clue. I could see oh this is a calculus class, but what the notes meant out of context of the class and where in the book it referred to? Nothing. I tossed them. I had forgotten they even existed until I opened the box up and sighed in a sarcastic way 'oh good more books that I never use'. The only ones I kept was some ideas I had for programs that were well fleshed out and documented nicely. Plus some nice books on algorithms and graphics. But most of that you can get on the net. Even now 25 years later? That is pretty much out of context of what I was thinking then. I would probably start completely over, notes and all.

I purged about half of my stuff a few years ago. I still have a huge pile of junk. On my next move more of it is 'going away'. It is in the way and takes up space.

I literally JUST donated the last of the textbooks I was keeping around. I looked up the prices on Amazon and some of these textbooks are still worth a lot of money (or at least offered for sale for a lot of money). This means I can document value for a nice tax break. One of the textbooks was listed for hundreds of dollars.

I kept a couple of the more interesting ones but overall I think I came out ahead with clearing out some dead weight and getting some value.

Donating an item is essentially a net of whatever the value of the item x your marginal tax rate. Definitely worth it over the hassle of selling it yourself, AND puts it into the hands of someone who needs it more.

I didn't move cross-country, but moved almost up the entire west coast, and hiring a moving company cost around 10% of what it would have cost to replace all of our furniture and other possessions. We came up with a pretty accurate replacement cost value to make sure we got the right amount of insurance coverage.

Plus it's a extra hassle to get rid all your stuff -- you need to deal with flaky Craigslist people, or try to donate it and then hire someone to haul away what the charities won't accept. "What do you mean you won't take this couch because of that small tear you can't even see!? I was literally using it today!"

This really depends on your lifestyle.

> just 6 check in luggage

SIX is a lot!

Funded by Carlos Slim?

We live in a weird time though. I mean given how crazy production has ramped up, I never would have thought we'd end up in a chip shortage. I also would have thought that last year we'd end up in a financial crisis. I mean we are, but not the stock market. I'm sure we'll see a collapse / correction again in the near future though, especially housing prices on this side of the pond are insane.

Part of the reason the demand is so high is that no one wants to get into a career that looks like it may get automated in the next 25 years. I know a lot of youngish drivers who got out after 5 years because they saw the writing on the wall.

I think many people are very attached to their furniture. I know I am. It took me years of scouring Craigslist to get the deals I did on my Room & Board furniture. It’s such an expensive brand that I am much better off moving with it than selling it and trying to find the pieces again. (It’d take years, again...)

I don’t presume everyone is this way but I do presume many people might have an attachment to their collection of furniture. If it’s all worn down IKEA handmedowns then it might make sense to not move with it. I certainly see that with college students but after that, many people like what they got and it’s a large cost to give it up and buy new. And many people don’t like to buy used furniture too - I am someone who is fine with it.

I mean international moving in Europe already costs a small fortune. With 'starter' furniture being as cheap as it is nowadays - thanks ikea - you can buy a whole set of furniture for the same amount as it would cost to move your existing stuff over.

I mean long-term I hope to be able to replace pieces of furniture with non-Ikea stuff. I was really trying with my TV cabinet, tried to get a unit with plenty of storage, but it was all... flimsy-looking, small and inconvenient. Finally bit the bullet, sat at a PC at Ikea and designed a very nice cabinet around a 60 inch TV.

I mean I only got the TV two years later, but it's the thought that counts.

If you rent an apartment in Shanghai, it's already furnished. It baffles me how this isn't the case in the US.

How is buying and shipping easier than just shipping?

it's not easy to find good quality & condition used furniture that fits the style and space, this is why people buy new (it's just easier/faster)

Or pay a non-sketchy moving company, perhaps?

IIRC, the USPS puts both size and weight limits on their deliveries. You'll do OK shipping trinkets and small electronics, but you'll have to do something about the furniture and appliances (if you are taking the last). You also have a list of things you might have issues shipping (chemicals, for example)

UPS and other parcel carriers are overpriced for this quantity of stuff.

Depending on volume you're better off doing pallets and LTL freight or buying a shipping container or end of life dry van and paying someone to pick it up and drop it off.

I’m driving 2000 miles to move across the country starting ... tomorrow morning.

After my experience moving in the opposite direction four years ago i opted to not hire a moving company, i bought a used cargo van instead. (2006 Ford E250 with 150,000 miles)

The moving service lost several of my boxes, for years i would occasionally look for something i knew i owned and come to the conclusion that it had been among the lost. The moving company was also hugely expensive. Lots of things were cheaper to throw away and buy new rather than pay to ship.

I spent about $7000 on a moving company in 2017, I bought a van for $8000 and at the end of the week i’ll still have a van.

PNW

I've heard that the Denver CO area is pretty hot right now. Most of the stuff you mention is pretty good there. However I also saw an article about some of the less ethical companies not hiring people there because of salary disclosure regulations. Property values are nuts, but not California nuts... yet.

Archive.today has it in full: https://archive.ph/vMbpD

I wonder how they're so consistently good at evading the Wall Street Journal's paywall, which is usually strict with no metered free limit and limited exceptions even for Twitter and Facebook shares. Probably the WSJ's website team would like to know too.

I wouldn’t personally choose Florida. I would think Austin, Portland, Denver, Tuscon, Asheville first. Many college towns across the country could give you the things you’re looking for, a big question is what weather you want.

What I would do is buy a minivan and go looking around the country. . .

Would you consider other countries? I found all those in Kaohsiung, as well as great electronics markets.

Denver is all of that, Boulder maybe even more. But it’s expensive and I left

A bit out of left field, but what about Buffalo, NY?

Twin Cities in MN (Minneapolis and St. Paul).

If you can handle or even enjoy the winters, it's about as perfect a place as you can choose.

Madison, WI also for something a bit smaller, but similar vibes.

Yes , I strongly recommend you Florida , central and north Florida have the best spots to live in. Sell your place in the west coast and move to Florida, is amazing. https://youtu.be/HeGbDRbodNQ

Lawrence, KS or Fayetteville, AR

As someone who grew up there I'm a little biased but I think Portland, OR fits your needs almost exactly. It's a city people move to for the lifestyle - interesting culture, good food, beautiful nature nearby (including plenty of forests) with very reasonable work/life balance. In fact, that's exactly why my parents moved there from San Francisco in the 80's (although at the time the culture and food wasn't nearly as good as it is today)

You're not going to believe me, but if not, it's your loss: Richmond, Virginia. It absolutely ticks all of those boxes, and does so with an offbeat gusto.

If you're not scared of cold weather, some reasonable options might include Burlington, Madison, Duluth, Champaign, and Grand Rapids.

If you want something warmer, maybe Charlottesville or Knoxville?

If you don't mind insufferable heat then Gainesville is reasonable.

I may have miscalibrated what you mean by "small cities." For even smaller places, I'd choose some random upper midwest non-flagship college town (Winona? LaCrosse? Houghton? Valparaiso?).

From Florida. It isn't perfect, it works for me. I wouldn't recommend it for you. AMA, I guess.

But my honest assessment is that everyone wants the same thing. Give me a cheaper house, in a picturesque neighborhood that is all friends...walkable to shopping, and maybe the beach. And no crime. As my realtor put it sarcastically... 'oh you want a little farm in a safe area in downtown Miami...no problem!'

Doesn't exist bud, for any amount of money. Choose a few things you -really- value, and hyperfocus on that.

Why not Chattanooga, TN? Great municipal broadband, beautiful hills nearby and amazing forests all around. It has a very laidback vibe too.

I like the vibe in Rayleigh, NC too. Great tech scene, yet not as expensive as Austin/Boston. Smokies are 2 hours to the west, while the Outer Banks are two hours to the east.

> Is there a way to read the full article?

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/bypass-paywal...

There's a version for Chrome also. On Android, I use that extension with Fennec from F-Droid.

Also I did SF->Florida and looked at a bunch of regions. St Petersburg sounds like the type of town you'd like.

Salt lake would work. And Utahs a great place for a variety of lifestyles, especially involving the outdoors.

Portland could be a good fit. But you say you are single and I don't think it's a great place for dating (maybe just my experience).

Portland, Maine. Great city, I miss Maine every day.

Allow me to throw in a vote for Royal Oak, Michigan. I think it checks all the boxes, especially still being habitable with ongoing climate change.

Consider college station TX? Weather is still not ideal (occasional tornado and hail) but otherwise cheaper than Austin small enough not to have traffic but with all the basic needs you would have from a biggish city. Also Houston and Austin are both 2 hours away.

I was very pleasantly surprised staying in Oceanside, CA. Small town, amazing surfing and ocean access, biking, very walkable for groceries/food/coffee/bars, felt safe at night, and close enough to San Diego/LA for the crazier stuff.

Minneapolis. You might not like it when it gets down to -20F, but it's easily the nicest city I've ever lived in and clicks all your checkboxes. The first year I lived there I kept kicking myself for not having moved 10 years earlier.

I agree, if you live in an apartment and don't have much stuff. I can't imagine people moving stuff from an American style 4BR house when they have kids, all on their own.

You have no reason listed so there's nothing to talk about. Its just a opinion with no reasoning so you're getting down votes without replies.

You might care more about your stuff but you also probably know less about how to do it well (like pretty much any other pro vs DIY decision). Plus it's a tremendous amount of work.