Comment by lightgreen | Hacker News Reader

Comment by lightgreen | Hacker News Reader

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> “Junkie criminal” as if you knew him personally

I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal?

> And to think the protests were about a single person

Sure protests were for all good and against all bad.

But there were too many posters about George Floyd and other black criminals, there was too many lies in crime statistics posted by left-wing media supporting these protests, so let's say these protesters were misinformed at best.

> clearly you don’t care enough to be informed.

Well, you have formed your opinion about what I know and what I don't (not the first time in this thread). It's not my job to convince you otherwise. Continue living in an imaginary world where everyone who disagree with you is literally nazi.

> I am of the opinion that you should not be on the side of nazis, ever.

Thank you for your opinion, but I'm not on the side of nazis. I'm on the side of freedom of speech and other human rights.

> Siding with people who want to take away the rights of everyone who doesn’t look like them is kind of a little hypocritical on your part

I'm not "siding" with these people. I try protect their rights and freedom as well as rights and freedoms of anyone else.

I'll try to explain the difference, but it is so obvious, so explanation might be hard.

There are two reasons: humanist and practical.

First, even serial killers and rapists deserve humane treatment, right to fair trial etc. Including free speech. Abandoning eye for an eye principle is also a great achievement of the western civilization.

Second, if society today decides it is acceptable to take speech rights from nazis, tomorrow it will decide it can take speech rights from communists, day after tomorrow you won't be able to talk freely. It happened too often throughout history, even in modern times, literally in the last decade (I'm not talking about the US, but it applies to the US to some degree).

> I did not get that. Do I need to know him personally to know that he has junkie and a criminal?

Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you. Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever.

> George Floyd and other black criminals

This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the reality of it.

> everyone who disagree with you is literally nazi.

I never called you or anyone who disagrees with me a nazi. I said "defending nazis is reprehensible" basically.

> I'm on the side of freedom of speech and other human rights.

Again, no you are not. If you defend those who would seek to take away the lives of others, you are not on the side of human rights. Right to life and all that.

> serial killers and rapists deserve humane treatment, right to fair trial etc. Including free speech. Abandoning eye for an eye principle is also a great achievement of the western civilization.

I agree, but this isn't a trial.

>decides it is acceptable to take speech rights from nazis, tomorrow it will decide it can take speech rights from communists

I mean, it did? Look at the 50's. Rightwing cancel culture and deplatforming at it's finest. Also, taking away the rights of those who don't respect the same right in others is kind of ok - that's sort of what our justice system is based on, since you likened this to a trial.

> Yes, since you only seem to know what right wing media tells you.

You cannot seriously believe he was not a criminal and a junkie.

Here the left wing sources about his criminal history: https://www.nytimes.com/article/george-floyd-who-is.html

Here is left wing source about his drug use: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/08/us/derek-chauvin-trial-ge...

> Rush Limbaugh was also a junkie and a criminal by those standards, yet he gets a medal of freedom or whatever.

Many criminals junkies walk free regardless of their skin color. George Floyd was just too unlucky to be high on several drugs, committed crime and resisted arrest on the same day. This combo could not end well.

> This is why you are an uninformed racist. You can disagree all you like but it doesn't really change the reality of it.

I'm not a racist, and I don't talk with people who throw insults, and generally don't talk to people who cannot conduct a constructive dialogue.

So this is my last reply to you. You may reply, and I'll read that reply, but I won't reply to you again. It was an interesting conversation. Thanks!

> I never called you or anyone who disagrees with me a nazi.

I was speaking figuratively. It just happens way to often by left wing people. In fact, you just called me racist in the same message. There's irony in that.

> If you defend those who would seek to take away the lives of others, you are not on the side of human rights.

I must say, you don't understand the modern meaning of human rights. Even criminals have these rights. Like UN requires it, all of the western countries signed it, most of the world countries signed it. It is universally agreed on in the western society. Well, I thought so, until I read your comment, and was quite disappointed. I thought better of left-wing people.

> Also, taking away the rights of those who don't respect the same right in others is kind of ok

So it's OK to rape the rapist, I got it. And I already replied to that: fortunately eye for an eye was abandoned by the western civilization, but unfortunately left-wing people are pulling civilization back to the dark ages.

> left wing sources

The NY Times is NOT left wing, it is liberal. Same with CNN. Also, the Times article says he moved away to get a fresh start. Do you believe a person is ALWAYS a junkie or criminal? I've been to jail. Does that mean I am a criminal, permanently?

Since when are police allowed to be executioners? How can you be ok with that? Why can't non-lethal force be used, a person brought to jail, and then charged with a crime. He wasn't charged with anything, and in America I thought people were "innocent until proven guilty."

>I'm not a racist,

So you are one of the only humans I have ever met who has no unconscious bias, is perfectly aware of the entirety of their mind, and does not need anyone else to hold up a mirror for them to show them their blind spots. Got it.

> It just happens way to often by left wing people. In fact, you just called me racist in the same message.

You should hear what I've been called by right wing people. And I'm not saying all racists are nazis. Some racists are just racist without knowing it, some are "culturally racist" like much of my family - ignorant, usually. Some are just racist and don't want to exterminate other races, but believe all sorts of bullshit bell-curve garbage. There are plenty of other categories.

>Even criminals have these rights.

Yes, we agree. And what was being protested last year was the unequal application of those rights, and police forces acting as judges, juries, and executioners, when they are supposed to be people who apprehend (not kill) criminals or gather evidence to use at a trial. I used to live in a 99% white neighborhood. My former roommate was a black man. I never had a front license plate on my car (illegal here) in the three years I lived there and never had a problem. He drove without one for a week and got pulled over three times. By cops who "weren't racist" according to them. You think those cops thought they were racist? You could have even been one of them for all I know.

>So it's OK to rape the rapist, I got it

No, I don't believe in an eye for eye but you keep putting up straw men to try to make me into some caricature of what you think a left wing person is, like how calling people nazis happens often so I'm obviously doing it, when you were the first person to mention them at all anyways.

In fact, every single person on the left that I know of is pretty against retributive justice and instead prefers rehabilitative justice. In a rehabilitative system, someone like George Floyd would have gotten addiction counseling, support as he was getting back on his feet, and help keeping his life in order, and the protests of last year would likely never have happened. This is just more projection from you. The right wing is always the one who is all about eye-for-an-eye - how many right wing people are calling for the abolition of the death penalty? Isn't "tough on crime" usually a big hit with the right wing voting bloc? Even liberals are on board with that garbage. How many prison abolitionists can you name on the right or even center? It's how we end up with shit like the Clinton crime bill or whatever.

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