Comment by midnightclubbed | Hacker News Reader

Comment by midnightclubbed | Hacker News Reader

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midnightclubbed

The bell I recommended isn't one you ring - it's like a cowbell that rings constantly (while you are moving) and lets people know you are coming before they can see you. Basic trail etiquette.

I have nothing against hikers (would be hypocritical as someone who trail-runs) and blasting past people on a crowded path (or at all) is an idiot move. But on a single track trail people can come up on you really quick, 10km/h is a brisk jog so a 15km/h (4m/s) delta V isn't exactly fast.

My local trails are way quieter at 3pm (most people are in work and temperatures are still hot) than at 7am (pre-work dog walkers and exercisers). Saturday 7AM is literally the worse time in SoCal - big groups of riders and local running clubs all hit the trails Saturday morning. Guess it is varies by region but no matter the time I'd want to give other trail users the maximum oppertunity to know I was there so we can all be safe.

For the record I don't want to ride my bike fast on multi-use paths at any time of the day, not sure why you thought I did. If I ride fast it is on bike focussed routes (accessed via the multi-use trails).

> it's like a cowbell that rings constantly (while you are moving)

This is horrific, so much unnecessary noise pollution.

It's really not. These bells aren't that loud, you really only hear them once the cyclist is maybe 50 yards away. It's an incredibly important safety feature on low-visibility singletracks.

I have a loud rear hub instead... mostly works just as fine. But if not, I'm also very patient in passing hikers, once I spent like 10 minutes behind two hikers on a singletrack before they realised I was behind them, because they were discussing something very intensively... but this is fine, in the meantime I can rest a bit, adjust my gear, eat and drink something etc. I always try to smile and thank people for letting me pass by.

The only - very few - occasions when this tactic did not work were usually hikers coming in the opposite direction and being actively hostile. There was an angry lady once who refused to move even an inch to the right, so I had to move to her left, which was a large field of nettle... To this day I don't know what her problem was, but this happens sometimes.

Maybe she’d had a run in with a pushy bike, or just got really scared? So what happened, did you step into the nettle, or did you stop and wait, or have a conversation with her and point out the nettle, or turn around and walk back a bit?

Or maybe the question is: in retrospect do you have any wishes or regrets about how you handled it? Did you think of anything you should have done differently to defuse the situation? Do you have any strategies for avoiding or resolving the rare but possible next hostile confrontation?

Multiple times in the past I have goofed and reacted to someone’s aggression with return fire, and I don’t think it’s ever made anything better, usually it’s worse. I would like to have some prepared strategies in my mind for handling it smoothly.

Hikers and animals (dogs and horses) have right of way over bikes at all times on the trails I ride, is that true for you too? I’ve bumped into an angry hiker or two also, but on the whole they’re almost always super friendly and contentious. For me it’s more common than not that hikers are apologizing and getting off the trail before I even have a chance to yield, sometimes so much so that I feel bad about it. Anyway, I think we should take stock of all the nice hikers and lucky interactions, because it’s perfectly okay and reasonable for a hiker on a shared trail to not expect to yield. It’s definitely unkind if they refuse to make any room to pass, you do sound very patient, and the angry hiker experience totally sucks - triply if you got nettle all over. But at the same time, if we as bikers aren’t yielding first as much as we can, it’ll only get less fun for everyone and we can lose trails, right?

It's not that bad at all, and stops when you are not moving. I'd say it has maybe a 20m range so it's not like people can hear you from the other side of the mountain.

I do agree it adds noise to (potentially) tranquil trails but imho its a good safety trade-off. Way better than people who insist on blasting music from their phone speakers or conference call while walking.

Thanks for using a bell, I really appreciate it as a hiker!

I feel like any naysayer hasn't actually been out on the trails much or haven't run into a bike while doing so.

>music from phone speakers

Now those are unjustifiable noise.

Agreed, just use a loud hub. It’ll let people know when you’re flying down DH trails and be silent for climbs when you can see people and slow down in time. I can’t even think about what the cowbell must sound like when it’s up on your roof rack.

> I can’t even think about what the cowbell must sound like when it’s up on your roof rack.

Hahaha. These comments are funny. It's not a cowbell, that was just an analogy. It's a bike bell with an off switch.

https://www.google.com/search?q=timber+bell

It's not "noise pollution" in any meaningful sense, except to the rider while it's on. :) But it is a good safety measure and is kind to other people on the trail.

A loud hub isn't a particularly good replacement for me since I'm running into other riders and hikers just as often while pedaling as while free-wheeling or downhilling. Maybe even less often downhilling since we're getting more and more one-way trails these days. I even watched my friend who has a loud hub have a slow mostly harmless head-on with a climber coming around a blind corner last season. Climber got angry but hadn't made any attempt to be noticed whatsoever, it would have been completely avoided had he made any noise, like, you know, had a bell...

My positive experience with it is very similar to what this guy describes, multiple people on the trail thanking me for using a bell. I've never once had a complaint about the noise, but occasionally I want it quieter for me. And I also found his 'secret' trick for keeping it slightly quieter, in addition to aiming it downward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD63c5pgHcU

I've often wondered how a loud hub would compare to bear bells in terms of alerting wildlife of your presence. I definitely prefer the sound of SRAM or Chris King hubs to bear bells.

It doesn't just let the two-legged critters know you're coming down the trail.

A bell that clangs as you walk is also common for back-country hikers to keep bears and others away too.

Until they learn to think 'The Ice/Meatman cometh!'

This is such a non-existent concern compared to a startled animal lashing out. People have been in the wilderness for a reeeeeeaaaaaaaaallly long time. Take their advice.

I INSIST on my interpretation of signaling "Meals on wheels" to them.

Because 'Life finds a way.'

BASTA!

Bear bells are not effective in any way and in fact may attract curious bears. Bears do not know that the sound of a bell means humans. In fact, in Canada where grizzlies are a concern Parks officers recommend against bells. The best deterrent is your voice.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/parks-canada-officials-endorse-th...

This advice may be good for some bear species / locations, but certainly not for all.

In Japan, hikers are advised to use bells and many do. People here have been using these trails for hundreds of years. They know what they are doing.

The point of the bell is to prevent you from startling an unsuspecting bear or mountain lion, which often will put them on the (aggressive) defensive. Not good if you come around a bend and find yourself 10 feet from a bear that was previously minding it's own business.

> The flaw with bear bells is their sound means little to a bear. “They just don’t make enough noise and they don’t make a bear aware that you’re human. A little tinkling noise doesn’t necessarily tell a bear that there’s a person nearby.”

> To prevent a negative encounter with a bear, Stuart-Smith recommends:

> Making noise when travelling on a trail

This advice contradicts itself. Bells make noise, and are louder and carry further than a human voice at normal conversation levels. I've never heard a serious hiker/backpacker warn against a bell... and the bear spray this guy recommends using only works when the bear is within 10-15 feet of you, and hopefully not startled into an attack. Bears can run a lot faster than you, and can climb a lot better than you. It's really best to avoid that situation entirely.

The advice of singing loudly, or yelling your name is unrealistic. Nobody that's hiking in backcountry will be able to sustain that for long, it's exhausting, particularly on all-day or multi-day hikes.

I do agree, the small bear bells often sold at REI are not the best though, the cowbell type OP mentioned is far superior.

Rarely do bears and other wild animals go out of their way to interact with humans... the bell just lets them know something is coming so they aren't startled by your sudden presence.

Cowbells in a mountain don't seem out of place. As a matter of fact, we need more of them.

For some of us in Northern Canada, this is how we alert bears that we're approaching. Even when not biking, we use "bear bells" that make constant noise.

You don't want to sneak up on a bear.

Please do not use bells, they are not an effective deterrent to bears and they annoy the hikers around you. https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/parks-canada-officials-endorse-th...

Please don't be so emphatic. You seem to have only part of the whole picture wrt to bears.

And many hikers use them too. The ones I encounter are no louder than a dog-collar.

That article is specific to bears (and not dogs or people), it doesn't say anything about bells being annoying, and it seems to contradict you by recommending that people should be "Making noise when travelling on a trail".

I use it to ward off predators - noise pollution is a feature :)

In my experience the tires of my bike rolling on the ground tend to be louder than those cow bell things.

Distant rustling, while noticeable by human hearing, is not instantly prioritized with the speed required to dodge bikes on a single-track compared to a ringing bell that engages human brains as soon as the sound is perceivable.

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