Ryanair’s statement on diversion to Minsk Airport
twitter.com
twitter.com
9/10 times the service is near-identical to a flagship. 1/10 times, the sub-par exception handling reveals itself. That's a trade-off I make regularly to save 400 euros.
I fly a lot with RyanAir, WizzAir and the other discount-airlines, because what they offer is great value - and when you upgrade a bit, it is not terrible.
A ticket listed for 50EUR, I usually end up paying around 100EUR with extras (legroom, luggage allowance).
We ended up coughing up an extra $1200 to fly Delta and Spirit never refunded us because "we could have taken the flight we offered". Last time I ever flew with a budget air carrier.
Now I fly Delta, I pay more per flight but I've been screwed over in the same manner exactly zero times since. In fact Delta has gotten me out of situations of my own doing that Spirit or any budget airline would have shrugged at and told me to suit myself.
At this point I consider the premium on airfare an insurance policy of sorts, might pay an extra $100-200 per flight but if that means not running the risk of screwing up a trip I paid thousands to put together, I'll take it.
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
"Over 2 hour arrival delay 400% of one-way fare (airlines may limit the compensation to $1,550 if 400% of the one-way fare is higher than $1,550)"
What they did in your case was illegal. Which has happened at Spirit before: https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot-fines-spiri...
You can file a complaint here: https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/file-consumer-com...
"There are no federal laws requiring airlines to provide passengers with money or other compensation when their flights are delayed"
https://www.transportation.gov/individuals/aviation-consumer...
The only regulations for delays in the US that helps passengers is some specifics about not stranding you in the aircraft/tarmac for more than 3 hours (domestic flights) or 4 hours (international flights).
Assuming you don't get caught by every hidden charge along the way, an airplane ticket isn't going to cost you >$100, even if you spring for "business class".
I think insurance would make a better insurance policy in your case. (especially when the airline tries to rob you)
From just a small percentage of cancelled Ryanair/WizzAir flights I am actually not far from all-together free flying after they paid out the compensation.
I use them a lot since they are the only ones which fly where I am going.
Train-> 6 hours, which is usually 7+ due to delays (last one I did in December was 7.20 making me late for a training) and costs 39 euros (20 if I buy 1 month in advance)
National airline -> No direct flight, need to fly to Lisbon and then Porto, total around 4-5 hours (two flights + layover), 80+ euros last time I checked. Service exactly the same (last time I used them, not even a glass of water was offered due to short fly times)
Car -> 5 or so hours, around 100 euros taking in account tolls + gas (is ok if 2+ people are doing the trip though)
Yeah, I will take the short sitting space (fuck, I would even stand in this route if needed, I have had longer train rides where I had to stand).
"Ooh I'm so cramped, and I didn't even get a free meal" so either deal with the hassle, time and cost of any other form of transit, or fork over 300 more euros for a big seat on a different airline!
I live in the US, and we almost never get Ryanair prices. I think I've paid 12 euros to fly Ryanair between two countries. That's insane.
> Train-> 6 hours, which is usually 7+ due to delays (last one I did in December was 7.20 making me late for a training) and costs 39 euros (20 if I buy 1 month in advance)
Look, I do not strictly disagree with your comparison and I have often taken low cost airlines for the same reasons here and in asia (though airasia is a whole other class above ryanair so i'm not sure it's fair to compare them).
But you're missing four important things:
1. those 50 minutes are actually at least 90 in reality, from entering the starting airport to leaving the destination airport, when taking into account check in and baggage, depending on the crowd.
2. the airport they use is off the city by a fair bit, adding at least 20 minutes of car or rail travel + costs, often both side (in and out)
3. if you need to add any kind of baggage + the link to the city, you end up costing the same as train
4. depends on rail link but here in france for such travel it's common to have a tgv or similar, which gives you ample room for your legs and a proper table for your laptop, along with power, so you can work
Low cost airlines have their advantages, but it's not that clear cut over train: 2h/2h30 where you can't do anything and unpleasant vs 6h where you are not cramped and can reliably work and / or relax. At least for intra-national travel at eu-scale train should be majorly pushed, and I personally agree with my country's plan to do so.
I never travel with baggage. Even in not cheap airlines, this add 30+ minutes for checkin and pick up also
I gave examples for Portugal. All these I did a lot. I used to travel Porto->faro and back many times a week (work in one place, my son in another). There is no real option here unless you are a full anti-flight person. I took the train down to faro last week but only because I wanted to do a training and times werent compatible, otherwise I would have flown, there isn't even a comparision here
I would prefer to fly with Ryanair these days.
And just updated Ryanair's statement still does not include info about two "arrested" (kidnapped!) passengers of FR4978 flight in Minsk...
JFTR, Originally title of actual thread on HN was: “Ryanair’s statement on FR4978 does not include info about arrested passengers”[0]
[0] https://twitter.com/hn_frontpage/status/1396775444071002113
Not sure why this story is getting so much attention on HN tbh. I guess the connection to Snowden makes it mildly relevant.
Good to know that if Ryanair says "passengers" they mean "some of the passengers".
Edit: Also, as Flightradar24 states, Minsk was not the nearest airport at the time the plane was diverted, and it likely was never the fastest-to-reach airport while the plane was over Belarus, because the pilots would be prepared for a landing in Vilnius.
The plane crossed the border into Belarus at ~9:30 around (51.929851, 25.369313), 280 km from Minsk airport, 300 km from Vilnius airport, with the Vilnius runway at a favorable angle and the Minsk runways perpendicular to the shortest path from their position to Minsk. So Ryanair's statement that it was the nearest airport sounds like bullshit too. At the time the plane made the turn (starting at ~9:45), it was about 2 minutes away from leaving Belarus airspace.
e.g. https://twitter.com/DavideLeDingue/status/139653511684805837...
The blame of this debacle does not lie with RyanAir, notwithstanding the way that their press release reads like "then Mrs Lincoln was slightly delayed at the theatre."
... until pirates entered to cabin:
> What we know so far: KGB operatives boarded the plane in Athens this morning together with Roman Protasevich (he noticed dodgy-looking ppl taking pics of him at the gate). Then when the plane has entered Belarus airspace KGB officers initiated a fight with the Ryanair crew (1/2)[0]
> insisting there’s an IED onboard. Eventually the crew was forced to send out SOS (literally moments before the plane would've left Belarus airspace). MiG-29 took off and escorted it to Minsk. Security services entered the plane and arrested Protasevich¹. (2/2)[1]
¹ Later yesterday press published info that not only Protasevich was arrested, but also his girlfriend which was also on that plane.
[0] https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446650718117890
[1] https://twitter.com/TadeuszGiczan/status/1396446652349784068
But it's moot; the pilots would likely not have known that these air pirates and Belarus ATC were acting in concert, unless the pirates wanted them to know that. Confusion and chaos are friends to criminals.
If the aircraft was intercepted by fighters, that makes it more difficult to disobey ATCs orders. But if an ATC tells the aircraft to do X, the pilot can say «No, I'm not going to follow your instructions (because it would endanger the safety of the aircraft and/or passengers) and I'm going to do Y instead». It helps to convince the ATC of the situation if the pilot declares an emergency. Declaring an emergency is something that happens all the time, at most it means some paperwork for the pilot after they land.
If a journalist can be picked up, anyone can be.
Ryann air is at fault, pilot really is - he could have kept his course. It would be a game of chicken and risky. So hard to say what is right wrong here.
Most importantly, its the fact that EU is weak and Belarus did the math and concluded they would get away with it. Simple As that.
It's not like they called to the plane and said "we'd like to kidnap a passenger, please land" and the pilot went along with it.
Avoiding that request could have been another MH17 story.
EU and NATO must show their strength now, it is not up to Ryanair anymore.
MH17 is not related in any way to "bomb on a board" cases.
Russian state terrorists, invaded in Ukraine, shot down MH17 using surface-to-air missile.[0]
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
Thank god that it did not happen to Ryanair.
It boggles my mind that anyone would think like this.
There is always a choice, and the latest information (3 days later) show he had more of a choice than previously disclosed.
There's clear guidelines on how to act in the event of interception. He just followed them to the T.
The count to number of citizens of ex-Union countries killed on NATO turfs is now in hundreds. I'd say you are more likely to be shot/strangled to death/stabbed/poisoned/blow up in Europe than back home.
Total impunity, and an obligatory "serious concern"
And yet the West are still happily doing business with them - see Biden lifting sanctions on Nord Stream 2.
Not all passengers. One passenger was arrested in Minsk. Why would they omit it/lie like that?
If I was an Russia/Belarus opposition journalist, I'd be scared shitless to fly around the EU and risk something like this happening.
As always, unless there's a law or other incentive against it they'll continue to optimise profits and nothing else.
[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
"..authorities cleared the aircraft to depart together with passangers and crew.."
One passanger, Roman Protasevich, was removed fron the plane, the sole reason why this whole thing happened.
There was also info that 6 passengers was removed in Minsk: Protasevich, his girlfriend and probably 4 Belarus' KGB agents.
No, that's the Authentic Ryanair experience.
Mapbox for example, sources a considerable amount of its workforce from Minsk, and they’re little better than slaves because they can’t quit or complain or they’ll be sent to the mines.
We sit here and say that this kind of behavior is villainous, but we happily do business with those who profit off of the suffering of others. For shame.
Humans aren't responsible for the actions of their brothers. What they're doing is wrong, but its not a we. perhaps you were looking to make a call to action? a link to the contact points might go a long way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident
It exposes the hypocrisy in the statements coming from our governments right now.
You don't really need to murder or imprison them when you can just make it so no one trusts them or they can't find an audience.
That said I do think Belarus fucked up here evaluating by their own best interests. Having an open dictatorship in Europe has always made a lot of people uncomfortable but was tolerated as long as they didn't draw too much attention to it or do any scary shit to outsiders.
Here they kinda did both. Would not surprise me if this ends up being a huge problem for them long-term.
The West is trying to present itself as a viable alternative to Russia to Belarussian people. The opposition politicians he is attacking largely support leaning westwards. How do they criticize this without appearing hypocritical? It's very hard.
If the West tries to punish Belarus with sanctions that hurt the ordinary Belarussian it will likely look even worse.
I can't actually think of a scenario here where Lukashenko doesn't win something.
Really ?
Dead, deep in you heart, ask yourself what the USA would have done if Snowdon or Assange were on a Mexican flight over the continental USA to Canada.
• did not affect Belarus in any way.
• had nothing to do with Greece, Lithuania or Ireland, the countries most directly affected in this incident.
• resulted in immediate diplomatic apologies from both Spain and France, two of the countries that were involved.
• was condemned by the U.N. Secretary General.
Sounds like he is in the hospital with "heart problems" now...
Info about MiG's escort NOT verified — there are no any photos/videos at this moment which shows MiG-29 side-by-side with Ryanair's plane.
Additionally there is an alleged video of the Mig landing after escort with 6 air-to-air missiles visible
(Based on the passenger numbers, assuming 3+3 seating, and assuming everyone has, on average, one smartphone with a camera).
Not to mention that Air to Air missiles have a range in the tens of kilometers and the MIG-29 has sensors to observe the aircraft up to 100 km away.
I don't think any of the passengers would have been aware in the slightest if the MIGs where flying 5 km behind the passenger aircraft.
https://www.faa.gov/news/safety_briefing/2015/media/intercep...
Of course, they could also intercept from a bigger distance or threaten the plane with surface to air missiles and no jets at all.
Intercepting from a bigger distance has the downside that the pilot cannot see the fighters except on electronic displays, all of which have zero security (just like the radio used to communicate with ATC). I wonder how long until someone "intercepts" an aircraft with an SDR and a directional antenna.
Source?
Except for a person, right?
https://www.lrt.lt/en/news-in-english/19/1416106/student-of-...