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Comment by efitz | Hacker News Reader

> according to a new Harris poll commissioned by Paradigm, a diversity consultancy, more than two-thirds of adults in America want to be able to discuss racial-justice issues at work

I just plain do not believe this poll.

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Source is at https://www.paradigmiq.com/2021/05/19/nearly-7-in-10-america....

First off, note the wording (which is actually "we should be able to discuss racial justice issues at work"). This question is a bit open to interpretation, but I'd interpret as "employees should not be prohibited from discussing racial justice issues". Which I certainly agree with... I would not want my employer censoring private conversations.

The 66% thinking businesses should take action on racial injustice issues is reasonable... most people would want their business taking action against racial discrimination or harassment internally at the bare minimum.

What's more controversial are specific DEI programs at the workspace (diversity training, race-targetted recruiting bonuses, company donations for certain causes, etc.) -- the survey high-level doesn't go into that.

Finally, this is an online poll where "no estimate of theoretical sampling error can be calculated", so I suppose there is heavy room for error.

The line I draw in the sand is that of thinking that work _is_ the place where one should talk about social issues. To my mind it most certainly is not. Everyone in that organisation has been employed to a single end (hopefully) to create a product.

The software developer or marketing assistant or middle manager does not decide the strategic course of the organisation. This is not a democracy and those individuals (myself included for most of my life) simply do not get a vote.

Now, should work be an environment where we _can_ talk about social issues without repercussion? Sure! Should we be using significant chunks of that time to modify people's behaviour to be socially acceptable? Not in my opinion.

What this highlights is that we really haven't figured out a forum which is designed to discuss social issues. At the moment we've got the internet which guarantees maximal disagreement on all points and we've made the mistake of thinking the work environment is synonymous with the home environment and the social environment. Resulting in everyone being offended about everyone else's behaviour at all times.

you could equally phrase it as “30% BELIEVE RACIAL JUSTICE TALK SHOULD BE BANNED IN WORKPLACES” and that would be just as shocking. Although that’s probably the same 30% as Trump’s core base

Some subset of adults want their work to provide the same warm and fuzzy validation of their beliefs that they get on Facebook. Another subset distrusts "anonymous polls" and will quickly click the right answers to make HR go away. That might add up to 66%.

This was never a problem pre-pandemic. People would discuss these issues at lunch or at the watercooler. If you were bothered by politics interrupting your little heads-down work bubble? Just take lunch at your desk or pack your own water bottle. But in the WFH age, there's no getting away from it. These discussions happen in company general chat, where often important business also happens.

>> in company general chat, where often important business also happens

I'm lucky in that I have never worked at such a company. My love for email continues to grow and knows no bounds.

>This was never a problem pre-pandemic

I think this was less of a problem pre-Trump more specifically.

At some point the idea that foreigners and minorities should be treated like human beings seemed to become controversial in some circles. Same circles that thought an alternate invented history was preferable to reality and spent a lot of time/money mainstreaming that idea.

The resulting push back was expected and necessary. There is a cycle of civil rights wins followed by backlash in the US, I don't think that cycle ever ends.

Downvoters angry that ~90%+ of the planet doesn't believe white America's manufactured origin myth or is it something else?

Republicans started lying in the 90s to stay in power. Trump was a consequence of that. But yeah, pre-Trump they did "only" bend the rules to stay in power, with Trump that changed to openly trying to overthrow democracy. That you can only do by constantly lying.

Kinda sucks if you only have to parties, and one becomes a fascist cult. Makes discussing politics impossible, probably. There's just a difference between untruths, over-reactions, "cancel culture" and all those things on the one side vs. plain fascism on the other side.

First of all every political party lies to stay in power. The idea that this is unique to the Republican party is ridiculous. The Democratic consistently lie and bend the rules as well.

If you think Republicans are supporting fascism then you either don't know what fascism is or what Republicans support.

Its not me that thinks that. Its, you know, historians and stuff. But what do they know.

There's a difference between some people lying or saying not entirely true things sometimes, and a whole system of belief based on lies. If you believe Republicans and Democrats are on the same level there, there's no point that we continue. I will not convince you of anything and vice versa.

It is quite interesting to watch people rationalize what they experienced under Trump, even as a person that was not a fan of the sensationalist coverage he received in the MSM... IMO he was an objectively bad leader and his short-termist approach has upcoming 2nd and 3rd order effects that most people are not prepared for.

The global immune system is in the process of responding to the re-emergence and attempted normalization of western (white) chauvinism that he played a role in reviving.

I'd be willing to be the word "able" is doing the heavy lifting here. Not because everyone has vocal opinions on BLM, but that this is America, land of the free, you can't tell me what I can and can't say.

Not to mention, "racial-justice issues" doesn't necessarily mean they are PRO-racial justice either.

Me neither, but to the extent that it is a valid poll I'll bet what it actually means is the opposite of what they claim here.

Yeah, I hold what I believe is the popular (and most correct) opinions and there is no way I'd want to have a conversation about any of that with my coworkers.

We live in the age of the lie. It's impossible to take anything at face value, because it seems like every organization we interact with is just lying to us all at every opportunity.

Actually, we live in the age of one group of people constantly lying, and convincing everyone else that everyone lies. Soviet-style propaganda - making everyone believe that the truth cannot be known, everything is possible and everyone lies.

(I am talking about intentional, informed, strategic lies, I am not talking about people that just don't know better etc.)

While I agree with your assertion in the general case, I think the response from other factions is that they, too, must lie in order to compete, leading to much more systemic, intentional, strategic lies.

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