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Comment by dragontamer | Hacker News Reader

All you youngsters don't remember the 90s.

Waco Siege, Oklahoma City Bomber, North Hollywood shootout, Ruby Ridge. Columbine. Gang warfare.

Before "Terrorists" were dudes from the Middle East, "Terrorism" were religious cults, anti-government forces, and bank-robbers who had huge-ass weapons. Domestic terrorism was way scarier, even as Al-Qaeda bombed the World Trade Center the 1st time in the early 90s, the other domestic events overtook our mindset.

Now that Middle-East terrorism (ISIS, Al Qaeda, etc. etc.) seem to be on the decline (knock on wood), I'm not surprised to see the pendulum swing back to domestic terrorism.

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Waco? are you referring to the FBI?

Good point.

And there are many people today who still take the Branch Davidians's side in that shootout, furthering anti-government feelings today. Pro-gun groups believe that stockpiling of weapons is a holy right that should not be violated.

Palestinians should would be better off with a stockpile of weapons...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnZSaKYmP2s

They had several stockpiles, including actual fucking short-range missiles. Didn't help them at all against a modern military force, did it? But you think the US Army is concerned about Bubba and his cache of AR-15s?

US Army continues to struggle to control Afghanistan. Russians failed to control.

The Soviet Union at least had the excuse of having a conscript army and America arming the Afghanis with MANPADS. America's failure probably had more to do with nobody having any clue what the actual objective was.

you're not wrong.

Everyone has struggled to control Afghanistan, including every Afghan government in history. Not going to hold it against them for doing better than most at the task, but not expecting control given the nature of the task and territory.

Sometimes "Bubba" is in the US Army. And yeah, the US Army is concerned about him.

The federal government framed themselves as the victims there, while the government gunmen were taking memento photos standing next to charred corpses.

David Koresh was known to leave the compound to visit town regularly. The government could have and should have arrested him during one of these visits. Instead they chose to wage a small war (getting several of their own killed in the process.)

When the Branch Divinians released some hostages (a number of children) who seemingly were sexually assaulted inside of the compound, that kind of forces the government negotiators to act.

Nonetheless, my point is well supported by your argument. There are a huge number of Americans who were disillusioned by those events. The Waco Siege has been used multiple times as an "Excuse" for domestic terrorists to take lethal action on fellow Americans.

Those particular Americans who were disillusioned by the attack are also a particular kind of people to stockpile weapons themselves. So yes, it makes sense to keep tabs on potential domestic terrorists who have grievances from that time.

To be clear, I don't blame the federal government for break up that dangerous cult. But I think they deliberately went about it in a way they knew would result in a lot of violence. The siege had already been underway for weeks when those reports of abuse reached Janet Reno; the reports of abuse precipitated the final assault, not the siege itself. The siege started with arrest warrants for weapons charges.

You may be interested in listening to this [1]. Both of you have a very shallow and, frankly, rather naive understanding of what happened there. It will likely shock you to learn what you were told about that event is not at all honest, to put it nicely.

[1] https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/scott-horton-show-just...

There also seems to be rather expansive holes in both of your understandings about what the Oklahoma city Bombing was really about. I can't find the episode of the Scott Horton Show / Antiwar.org at the moment, but here is a very long primer [2] on the extremely suspect and irregular events surrounding the OKC bombing. Bonus: the head of the investigation of the OKC bombing was none other than Merrick Garland the current AG that is apparently going to now unleash a wholesale police surveillance state on us all that I bet many think will not target them … for now.

[2] https://libertarianinstitute.org/author/richard-booth/

> There also seems to be rather expansive holes in both of your understandings about what the Oklahoma city Bombing

What the hell are you talking about? I haven't said a damn thing about Oklahoma.

If I've said something that is incorrect about Waco, then correct me. Podcasts leave people with the impression that they learned something without actually teaching them anything. They go in one ear and out the other, leaving behind only a sensation of knowledge. If I'm wrong about that, share the knowledge you received from this podcast instead of telling me to consume a podcast.

I know enough.

1. Branch Divinians vs ATF / FBI / other forces occurred with a 50+ day siege.

2. A large number of conspiracy theorists use the Waco Siege event to air their anti-government grievances, sometimes rising to the point of modern domestic terrorism.

EDIT: I've been downvoted. #1 is surely not in question.

That means #2 might need more info. Proof for #2 is the Oklahoma City Bombing. Timothy McVeigh referenced the Waco Siege as one of his grievances. There's no doubt in my mind that the Oklahoma City Bombing was a domestic terrorism event.

You seem to be in need of some non-regime propaganda information. I must warn you though, you will have your rose colored glasses smacked right off your face when you hear the truth and even just learn of all the extremely suspect things surrounding just Waco and the OKC Bombing. And no, it's not some crazy stuff, it's solid fact and official record and FOIA/lawsuit based investigative journalism and reality.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/scott-horton-show-just...

https://libertarianinstitute.org/author/richard-booth/

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. If you believe the government on anything, then I not only have a bridge to sell you, but then I guess we are going to find those WMDs soon.

> […] while the government gunmen were taking memento photos standing next to charred corpses.

That's what, for better or worse, 'macho culture' seems to do:

> Photo reveals Australian soldier drinking beer out of dead Taliban fighter's prosthetic leg

* https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/01/photo...

You scored a 'victory' and want to celebrate. It's no different than in a sport when a point is scored, especially team sports. Welcome to human/male nature: you can call in unprofessional or crude or whatever if you want, but good luck try to stamp it out IMHO.

Also, the February 28th raid was the ATF, not the FBI. The FBI came in after the ATF lost that battle.

There was also the incident in Philadelphia by the FBI.

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