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Comment by perardi | Hacker News Reader

…what a non sequitur.

The F-150 is already a bloated monstrosity, it makes no difference if it’s electric. It’s some tiny bit faster, but they’re all fast enough.

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I would buy this truck for the 11 outlets with gobs of power alone. They get it.

This is pretty awesome.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/19/ford-f-150-lightning-elect...

> “If your F-150 Lightning is plugged in when your outage occurs, Intelligent Backup Power will automatically kick in to power your home,” said Ryan O’Gorman, Ford’s energy services lead, in a video briefing prior to the reveal. “When power is restored, the truck automatically reverts to charging its battery.”

Wow, I wonder what connector that uses? They'd either have to backfeed through J1772, or backfeed through the DC pins with a house-mounted inverter.

Well, There's speed, and then there's acceleration.

This new Lightning (putting it that way because F150 Lightning once corresponded to a gas-guzzling Supercharged V8 trim) has 775ft/lb of Torque. For reference, the existing models are between 265 and 510 ft/lb.

Additionally, one of the benefits of an electric motor, is that torque is essentially instantly available, compared to an ICE where there's only a slim power bad where that max torque range is hit.

Unless Ford 'governs' acceleration in software, I can see some lead-foots getting themselves into trouble quickly. They probably -will-, but I'd expect them to offer some sort of switch for that, lest the Ford zealots grab their pitchforks. Let us not forget that a lot of 'Car guys' are arguably insane. When Ford considered switching the Mustang to a Front Wheel Drive Mazda design, they had to deal with death threats!

this is my biggest concern. my dad has a tesla, and you put your foot on that thing it feels like a jet on the runway. electric motors are allowing everyday, consumer level cars that can do 0-60 faster than a Ferrari, and silently as well. it leads to doing more aggressive turns and stuff like that which you can only pull off with maximum acceleration, which means scenarios like the left turn where you're whipping out like silent lightning to beat the oncoming cars, and some kid on a bike suddenly entering the road to your left where you're going, and in the opposite way in which you are looking (at the oncoming cars to the right) is toast.

to all the idiot downmodders, I am not advocating against electric cars, I am advocating against their software allowing unfettered acceleration as well as the lack of audible cues to pedestrians (some hybrid cars are now adding artifical sounds for this issue).

One of the things I've seen in the Powerboost (their hybrid model) reviews is that even when people disable traction control to launch it, there is something happening that keeps it from spinning out. I think the electric engine might have a mandatory control mechanism in it that cannot be bypassed.

[edit]

Example: https://youtu.be/HGzlV4ggudM?t=425

first of all, despite its prominence in marketing materials, engine torque doesn't tell you much about a vehicle's performance characteristics. torque is meaningless without knowing the overall gear reduction. a 911 gt3 is about as fast in a straight line as a tesla, despite having way less torque.

> compared to an ICE where there's only a slim power bad where that max torque range is hit.

second, this is only true of naturally aspirated engines, which are pretty rare these days. engines with turbos or superchargers are usually tuned to make (roughly) peak torque all the way from 2000 rpm to redline.

this is a lot of fretting over the peak acceleration of a truck. I believe the thing does 0-60 in something like 4.5 seconds. that's really quick for a truck, but only above average compared to performance sedans. in any case, most people (even the crazy ones) do not often hit peak acceleration from a red light, especially in an EV.

>this is a lot of fretting over the peak acceleration of a truck. I believe the thing does 0-60 in something like 4.5 seconds. that's really quick for a truck, but only above average compared to performance sedans

Seems like the people in this thread arguing about a fast truck don't know about the original Lightning, nor are they familiar with modern sport trucks like the Ram TRX or Shelby F-150 Super Snake, both of which will give proper high end sports cars a run for the money in a drag race.

...or simply how fast a modern pickup truck is generally.

It's worth checking out the 1/4 mile times from guys with RCSB F150s, whether it's an Ecoboost or a Coyote.

At this point, I'd say that the main limitation tends to be traction issues.

> Let us not forget that a lot of 'Car guys' are arguably insane.

You might want to look in the mirror. Car threads bring out really destructive attitudes, and mostly not from the 'car guys'. The stuff that gets said here is astounding...

Are you a "car guy"?

Yes, what of it?

Hey, nothing wrong with that. Just trying to see where you both stand. Sorry if it sounded snarky.

Yep!

And I've never sent anyone a death threat. I don't hate people for their choice in cars, or non-choice as the case may be. I enjoy interesting cars of all kinds. I'm not especially into trucks from an enthusiast perspective, though as a homeowner and RV owner I do happen to own a Ford F250. And I don't mind people that are into them. You have to be a bit of an enthusiast, IMO, to daily drive a super duty if you don't need it :). I'd own a Taco if I didn't need to tow anything, as it would be far more livable for daily use.

> You might want to look in the mirror.

I provided a very real world example of car enthusiasts doing something that a sane human being would not do. Can you help me understand what I should be looking for?

This is like pointing to a single self-identified Democrat or Republican and then claiming they speak for everyone else who also identifies as such. This is extremely pervasive and is one of the fundamental breaks in our political dialog these days.

And yeah, a lot of people on HN are also car enthusiasts. How many of us sent death threats in response to the Ford Probe? I was even a Mustang enthusiast at that time. I never sent any death threats, nobody I know did either. You are describing a sociopath, who may also be a car enthusiast, and then claiming that this means all car enthusiasts are sociopaths.

This. The crazy acceleration rates make speeding easier (you get to high speeds in no time) and more dangerous (you surprise other people) while offering no tangible benefit except maybe for killing the sports car market.

And yet we have gps controlled speed for e-scooters but none for cars...

Every single car today is bloated.

Like the Toyota Yaris and Fiat 500?

Yes, compared to cars even a decade ago modern cars are very bloated. Have you seen an original 500 from the 50's/60's or 70's? They weighed around 1100 lbs. A modern base trim Fiat 500 weighs around 2400 lbs.

We all realize it's due to safety, but a lot of sports cars have gotten progressively less fun as a result. The M3 is no longer a small nimble sedan. It's larger than the 5 series was from only 2 generations ago. That's all he's pointing out.

Well then I have to disagree. A motorcycle helmet is not bloat compared to wearing a sock on your head. Sure an old car might be more fun but safety isn't bloat. AC units are.

I already acknowledged the size increase is due to safety. It's not an opinion that modern cars are physically larger and heavier than they were only a few generations ago. There's nothing to disagree with. The M3 (now called M4) has become an entirely different class of vehicle.

2021 G80 M4 length: 189.1″, width: 74.3″, curb weight: 3,840 to 3,890 lbs

2011 E92 M3 length: 180.4 to 181.8″, width: 71 to 71.5″, curb weight: 3,704

2001 E46 M3 length: 176.8", width: 70.1", curb weight: 3415 lbs.

2021 M5 length: 196.4″, width: 74.9″, curb weight: 4,345 lbs

2010 M5 length: 191.5, width: 72.7, curb weight: 4,012

2001 M5 length: 188.4″, width: 70.9″, curb weight: 4,024 lbs

The contention is with your use of "bloat", which implies that the extra size is useless, or at least not worthwhile.

The 3/4 series grew in size so much that they introduced the 1/2 series to fill the void of a small coupe. They didn't have to increase the physical dimensions by over a foot in length and nearly half a foot in width. It completely changed the driving dynamics. So, yes, it was absolutely is not worthwhile considering they decided to make a replacement for it after realizing that they alienated a lot of enthusiasts.

Both 500 pounds heavier than an 80's civic.

And 500% higher risk of death. You might call that bloat but to me that is like saying a good quality motorcycle helmet is just a bloated hoodie or cap.

A great case study. The Fiat looks respectably small until you see the original which looks like one of those cozy coupes that they sell for toddlers. The comparison is sobering. Not only that, but in the interior too, the controls and dials are beautifully neat and thin in contrast to the modern version.

Larger cars = safer for the driver and occupants. Look at an original mini. vs the new ones.

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