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flemhans

Is there a safer alternative?

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Well, there's this newish hangover-free thing: https://www.sentiaspirits.com/

Has some reviews floating around the internet: https://metro.co.uk/2021/01/22/alcohol-free-spirit-sentia-pr...

The creator, David Nutt, has a long history of trying to bring attention to the problems alcohol brings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt

Does anyone know of a way to get this shipped to the USA?

If you're ok with comparable alternatives, Amazon sells a variety of non-alcoholic wines.

That might work, I'm interested in this one specifically because in the article that was added, the person reviewing it said it made them feel tipsy-drunk, but never more than that, which sounds absolutely ideal for me.

I do wonder how much is due to the claimed GABA uptake enhancement from the ingredients and how much of that would be attributed to placebo though.

Safer in what dimension? Alcohol when abused is consumed in huge amounts and damages pretty much all body organs. Other drugs with comparable effects (say CNS depressants like GBL or benzos) are also very unsafe but mostly damage only your brain, make you dependent, make you do stupid stuff to yourself (like choke on your vomit or sleep behind the wheel) or people around you but probably won't fry your liver.

ketamine? weed once your frontal lobe is developed?

Legitimately very interested to see a comparable study for cannabis, in adult users.

[EDIT] everything I could find with a quick search is about heavy, long-term use only, which evidently has little effect on white matter, and uneven effects on grey matter, increasing it in some areas and decreasing it in others. Nothing about long-term light use, occasional "binge" use, anything like that.

I read that heavy cannabis users regain their full capacity just after few weeks. So probably if there's any damage it's nowhere near as extensive as in the case of alcohol.

Not sure why you're being downvoted. Both are extremely safe compared to ethanol — in terms of both self-harm and harm inflicted upon others.

My guess is because they're not really an alternative because they don't produce the same numbing effects many people seek in ethanol consumption. Also, they are still illegal, stigmatized, and difficult to find in many places.

Tons of studies show that weed effects emotional processing, increases risk of of sudden psychosis, and yes, even gray matter loss. [1] This idea that weed is safe due in part to its associations with "Nature" is really a social fabrication. People just fought for another thing they wanted to imbibe that wrecks us in another, not necessarily equivalent, way.

Personal experience is it's one of the few recreational drugs I can't handle as I experience extreme paranoia, rarely terrifying out of body experiences, and always an inability to speak, which is extremely uncomfortable as I deeply value my ability to communicate.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/npp201467

I didn't say it was safe — I said it was safer than ethanol. With that said, I appreciate your comment. I didn't know all of this specifically.

> Personal experience is it's one of the few recreational drugs I can't handle as I experience extreme paranoia

I get those too. After considering it for decades, I'm fairly convinced it's due to my psychological makeup - specifically fearing an unmasked loss of control.

GHB is kind of similar to alcohol, but I'm not sure that the long term effects on the brain are any better.

Alcohol is drugs such as weed, mdma and heroine. One is more dangerous than the other, but they have one thing in common.

Drugs damage the body and/or to some extent in some way, shape or form.

Don't do alcohol. If you have social pressure, fake it. Like order a beer and don't actually drink it, pretend to sip. I think people need to take this more seriously and start to think for themselves. I know it's hard, we have habits, but it's damaging.

The safer alternative being: don't do it.

If you want drug like feelings, I'd recommend exercising, being in love or sex. I'm pretty sure one is able to get pretty far with dancing on music as well.

The parent was getting downvoted, and as someone who drinks, I don't necessarily find anything offensive about the parent comment (unless it broke a specific HN guideline).

It reminded me of my go-to when I don't want to drink alcohol at an event; I'll order a sugar-free Red Bull on ice. It looks like a cocktail, has more flavor than a water, and no hangover.

It's perhaps too opinionated and not substantiated enough. I was trying to be brief. Unfortunately, I was too brief. I don't want to write out an essay and get sources where there are comparisons between alcohol and other drugs and how alcohol is basically a drug (e.g. [1, 2]).

The reason I didn't is because I assume the average HN'er knows this.

[1] https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/592199/fpsyt-11-5...

[2] https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2020.5921...

Most things damage your body in some way, shape, or form. Obviously the best solution is to not drink, but IMO it's not a great alternative. Something like what you mentioned at the end makes more sense.

Well, what I keep doing is make it more emotionally understandable to myself that alcohol fuck things up even at small levels (I've seen it, 3 glasses of wine and people are fighting :/).

> IMO it's not a great alternative.

Why isn't it?

I'm not implying I disagree, I am simply wondering what you think.

Dancing is bad for the knees and music is bad for hearing loss...

You can buy earplugs specifically made for music. I recommend to actually tailor make them for your ear channel. Whenever I used them, the music volume felt like I was standing in a quiet-ish elevator.

You can dance without using your knees if you have knee issues.

My point with both of these is: you can patch these issues. When you smoke weed, your lungs will be hit. When you drink alcohol, your brain will be hit.

I agree that with everything we do, there is some form of upkeep. The argument about drugs is that the upkeep might be too much.

One could argue that 0.8% gray matter loss is fine. I'm simply not one of them.

So then if you eat weed... what then?

Eating weed is IMO a completely different experience than smoking it due to a different onset experience. But fair enough, it might not be as damaging. It could be though, when one eats weed it's almost never a light dose. When one smokes a joint you can do a very small puff. Since the onset with space cake is like an hour to 90 min. you can't really do light dosing.

The first time I took space cake I almost got kicked out of a nightclub because I couldn't handle it (in Amsterdam). Space cake is always such a hell of an impact. Taking one puff isn't.

But I guess one could research all of this and find a way to make it so that you can dose quite well and not take the lung damage. In that case, it would seem fine to me.

This is a hilarious mental image to me. Like people aren’t going to notice your full pint glass after 10 minutes of fake sipping. Why would you not just tell them you don’t drink?

Also, alcohol is definitely really bad for you, but an occasional pub visit is hardly going to take years off your life.

I thought soda water (or sparkling mineral water) with lemon or lime was the official no-I'm-not-drinking-but-I-am-familiar-with-bars-and-don't-bug-me-about-it drink. Fake-sipping a beer would be bizarre.

That's news to me, IMO indeed a more fun alternative than drinking pure water. Thanks for mentioning it :)

In certain crowds you could also get away with still water w/o ice, since it looks like a vodka-water, especially if you're a woman (tends to be a women's drink—not pushing that norm, just observing it).

In either the still-water or sparkling/soda-water case, just get it in a highball or Collins glass and you'll fit right in. The glass is what sells it. 99% chance you won't be the first one to make this request to a given bartender. Unless they're a jerk they won't charge you for soda water from the bar's tap, and a slice of lemon or lime.

You could also ask for a coke without ice served in whatever they serve jack & coke in (collins glass, lowball glass, old-fashioned glass, could be any of several). Even if someone hears you order any of these, unless they're socially clueless this will signal some things to them and they'll know you are pointedly Not Drinking, for whatever reason, and they won't bug you about it or offer you anything. This is assuming you're around people who care that others aren't drinking, to begin with (I'd still use the specific-glass trick just not to look out of place, regardless, personally).

The dose makes the poison. Drinking too much water can kill you. Abstinence is not necessarily safer or better than moderation.

While I agree with that, I think it's better to start from a "better safe than sorry approach." It is much more likely that a study like this would have been published about alcohol than about 100% pure water.

So in that sense, the comment I made is not so much about the facts, it's more about strategy for optimal health.

Everyone has their own strategy of course.

I used to be a hardcore non-drinker and what I was rewarded with was somewhat relaxed sanity and reality perception as a substitute for regular alcohol consumption.

Now I feel a similar effect limited by physical substance intakes would have been a better alternative to that. After all our societies are built with alcohol in mind, including irrecoverable brain damages from it.

Hmm so you're telling people what to do and telling them to think for themselves at the same time. You only listed illegal drugs, what about medications, food, etc? Humans evolved because of mutagens in our diet. The paper literally points out that even if you try to preserve your body, age is the biggest factor in degradation - in the end there is no "safe".

That's not realistic. Animals love drugs, from monkeys eating overripe fruits to get drunk to goats eating coffee beans to catch a buzz (and yes, caffeine is just as much a drug as anything else).

Telling adults not to use drugs -- don't come for my coffee mug without an army -- is about as reasonable and effective as telling teens not to have sex. However great you think the reasons might be not to do those things, people are going to do them. We've been doing it for millions of years and aren't likely to stop now.

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