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Comment by brk | Hacker News Reader

There is such a thing as Indian English

If there is one phrase that, to me, defines Indian English, I think it would be "do the needful". For American English speakers, I think the first time you hear/see that, it is totally confusing and jarring in an odd way.

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I am a non-native English speaker. “Even I” would come to my mind first and then that.

For some reason it means “I also” in Indian English and it sounds weird to non Indian dialect.

Like “Even I don’t understand this” sounds obnoxious to me because in my mind it means “Even I, an almighty being, don’t understand this, who are you to think you can understand it” but it means “I also don’t understand” in Indian English.

According to google “Even” as adverb: used to emphasize something surprising or extreme. So I assume what I think at first is what native English speakers also think.

I hear this daily and I know what it meant to mean now, I had a friend who did not know this and thought her Indian colleague was talking down to her.

"Even I" is pretty common for native speakers, although it's normally used to break an assumption rather than being a full replacement for "I also".

For example: you are in a class and someone asked a question about a topic. The person next to you turns and says "I can't believe they don't understand this topic." Your neighbor is making the assumption that you also understand it. So if you didn't understand the topic, a response could be "Nah, even I had some questions about it."

Although someone could definitely use it to be condescending, or just trying to be cheeky.

Funnily enough, "do the needful" is proper English. It is too proper.

It comes from mid-19th century British English, which was used to design templates for formal letter writing in India.

These artifacts have remained as part of Indian English, but died as part of British and American English.

[1] https://katherinebarber.blogspot.com/2016/09/doing-needful.h...

Heard this phrase growing up in Ireland also so I think you may be over generalising. A quick search shows Irish origins actually.

> A quick search shows Irish origins actually.

I thought the British gave that phrase during colonial times.

Very interesting, thanks. I have some Irish friends and we've both commented to each other that it seemed to be somewhat unique to Indian English speakers, makes me wonder more about it.

And in a sense, yes, I was intending to over-generalize a bit, I think that for various languages that used broadly in different geographies, certain words and phrases tend to pop up locally that are often not widely used outside of that region. This is just from observations I have made traveling globally and working with global teams for 20+ years. I mentioned "do the needful" as it popped into my head from the parent comment about Indian English.

That phrase is so well known, i think some Indian speakers now avoid it when speaking to British or American speakers!

The one that sticks in my mind is "club" as a verb meaning "group". "We will club these events together into one message for efficiency".

I've heard "do the needful" used by non-Indians in tech, thanks to Indian expats in tech using it.

I hope it goes mainstream some day, at least in tech.

The first time I heard/read "prepone" and "do the needful," it was maybe jarring because I had never heard either of those before, but in both cases it was pretty obvious what they meant.

That's funny, because as a half a century long US native speaker, I started using that phrase a couple of years ago because I thought it sounded neat and everyone understands what it means.

And sirs. So many sirs.

Another common usage Indian English speakers make is using singular with one of for example saying "one of my friend" instead of saying "one of my friends". Also using only in a way completely different from how a native speaker would use. For example, to a question: Is the answer wrong? They will reply: No, the answer is correct only to mean that the answer was correct. I am a first generation Indian myself.

Then you need to learn more about it, Indian English is more than just that one phrase. That's like saying, "if there is one phrase that, to me, defines American English, I think it would be "Howdy".

that would be a fine thing to say. Seems like everything is fine.

No it's not. My point is that "do the needful" is not a proper representation of Indian English, as the parent comment implied. There are a lot more pecularities that makes the dialect what it is, but people are just not aware of them (yet). A quick google search will tell you that.

"Howdy" seems like a successful synechdoche for American dialect to me. Seems like what makes something a proper representation is somewhat personal.

Not to derail the conversation more, but "howdy" is more of a southern American thing than just American. I never used that in the midwest/north until I moved to the south.

Yeah, I'm from the midwest and only would use it somewhat tongue in cheek or to mix things up. But most short-hands for American culture internationally seem to be focused on Southern/Western.

Yes it is. To the point where there is actually a meme about it: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/do-the-needful

I'm South Asian by the way, so this meme is also associated with my own culture.

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