Comment by donall | Hacker News Reader

Comment by donall | Hacker News Reader

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Do you agree that a ten year old shouldn't be allowed to walk into a shop and buy a packet of cigarettes and a bottle of vodka?

When I was 10, I regularly bought beer and cigarettes in the shop near our house. I also bought bread, eggs, milk, etc. I was buying these things for my parents. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, except for the fact that I occasionally bought sweets for myself with the change. Unsurprisingly, as a 10 year old, I was more interested in strawberry chewing gum and red licorice than beer and cigarettes (which I had tried and found to be revolting).

When I was 10, my older brother turned 16. My father started including him when he ordered wine with dinner and he had the occasional beer with his friends. I have never seen any evidence of my brother abusing alcohol.

On the other hand, I saw plenty of alcohol abuse when we moved to Ireland. The strictness of the law here leads to the same problems associated with any other illegal drug abuse. Users (in this case, minors) consume it in secret and often in uncontrolled and dangerous ways. I'd much prefer to have a 16 year old kid being kicked out of a bar for being too drunk than drinking a litre of whiskey in a field, passing out and dying of exposure.

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I'm with you on lowering the drinking age in the US from 21 (though 18 seems pretty much OK in my view), and I also support legalisation of recreational drugs.

Your story of being 10 is pretty irrelevant, though, you're just one person. If everybody behaved a particular way in all aspects of life, we'd have no need for any laws at all. The fact that you were useful buying them and not smoking them doesn't mean other children won't do the opposite. These sort of laws have to protect the vulnerable, not build on the basis that all children are grown up enough to look after themselves.

As to drinking in bars, I'm not so sure. In my experience, I have, my friends have and random people I see any time I go out have been able to get very drunk without being thrown out. The only time I've seen people thrown out "for being too drunk" is actually when their being drunk has made them rude and/or violent, often towards bouncers. No-one I personally know has ever got so drunk that something bad happened, but I've seen no evidence that it's harder for that to be the case in a licensed bar than a field. Regardless, even if kids could drink legally, what's stopping them from, after being kicked out for being too drunk, heading to a field with a bottle of vodka?

I was probably rambling a bit too much there without making my point clear.

What I meant to convey was that I don't believe there is a credible risk of many 10 year olds abusing drugs. And if any of them do it, I think the main problem in their life is not the availability of the drugs.

As for drinking in bars, when I say "too drunk" I mean dangerously drunk, not just making a fool of yourself and being rude to the staff. The point is that most bars won't let you die on their premises, or even come close to it. In most cultures, recreational alcohol consumption has a social aspect and this is desirable. Drinking in a field in secret in the dark means that if somebody does get into trouble, it's less likely to be noticed before it's too late.

As for people being kicked out of a bar for being too drunk, I think most people would just go home and sleep it off. The sort of person who will go to the effort of acquiring more alcohol and heading off alone to drink in secret probably has other problems.

Again, I'm struggling to say this concisely, so I think the important point is that limiting access to alcohol/other drugs merely attempts to relieve one of the symptoms of a larger problem. It's like trying to cure lung cancer with cough medicine.

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