Show HN: How does the French health pass work?
sanipasse.fr
sanipasse.fr
Bacterial infections of the lungs are very hard to fight esp with the increase of antibiotic resistance. A single cough from a TB infected individual used to be a death sentence to the receiver (prior to antibiotics).
So where does all this start and end. If we are serious about health while traveling then let’s go all in across the germ spectrum and see what happens ;-)
I’d love to see planes reporting on cabin air quality as well. I’m sure I’m not the only one who gets sick (pre Covid) when traveling long haul.
Based on the UK, Israel and the US, 60% looks like it gets you pretty close to that.
With ~75 million children in the US, we aren't quite at 60% of the population though. Hopefully the number of vaccinated goes up quite a bit more.
Is not the vaccine available for anyone who wants it? The point of the Yellow Fever vaccine is to get it when traveling to a country where it is prevalent and you don't have the immunity of the local population, and not to bring it back to an unprotected population.
Yellow fever vaccine is mandatory when you travel in a country with high risk.
Covid vaccine will be mandatory when you want to go in situations / places with high risk.
So why would you be against covid health pass and not yellow fever health pass ?
But pragmatically in the current circumstances this seems to be the best option (or least bad) until things are sorted.
It's a little paranoid to claim that governments are continuously trying to create totalitarian states. Or that, in any case, they can do what they want, they can't. We already see that with all the debates on these passes and safety measures put in place. They are a hard sell to the public and everyone's watching. There is already huge pressure not to have them for a day longer than absolutely necessary and politically governments will have to stop as soon as possible.
What in human history makes you think that?
As Milton said, "Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program."
Officials have already hinted that masks, lockdowns, etc. will be implemented (at least seasonally) forever.
If there's an outbreak of a serious contagious disease then measures deemed necessary when that happens will be implemented. It's nothing sinister, just common sense and that has been the case for centuries.
And that kills these kinds of programs, unless there is a very good reason.
If the vaccine works, why in the world do you care who doesn't want to take it?
They sure as fuck aren't. There's three countries in the world where the percentage of fully vaccinated is over 50% (two of which have <1m people, and the third one being Israel that doesn't even pretend to count Palestinians). In France that number is 14%. In my country we haven't even reached 1%.
> If the vaccine works, why in the world do you care who doesn't want to take it?
Because there are millions of people that can't receive one due to the weaker immune system, which is where herd immunity is supposed to kick in.
If you do not think that driving license counts, from the health angle, people with visual impairments are required to wear glasses (or have corrective surgery) to drive.
People with any kind of cold symptoms going out and mingling also clearly cause statistical deaths, it's not ambiguous. Yet, we lived in a world where people did that routinely and it was left up to parents to protect their children from influenza, something far deadlier than Covid19 for them.
Also, destroying economies, livelihoods, preventing socialization, travel will also clearly cause statistical deaths, it's not ambiguous.
But, I guess, Covid19 means the saint class never owning up to their mistakes.
Beatings will continue until morale improves, I guess.
Who is the "we" deciding what tradeoffs are better?
I mean, humans have lived as groups with rules for thousands of years, I'm not sure what you are getting at.
So perhaps it's not death, but definitely economical stagnation.
If you want to convince, do it with data and logic, not by taking away rights.
So no, what I do find disturbing is that some people prefer to spread deadly diseases because they can't be bothered with the collective
It's an open source project [0] for those who eventualy don't want to use official app
why not simply having 2 QR codes, one full, one light ... ?
- People would have to know which QR to show - Organizers could get more access to data by telling users "not that QR, the other one" ?
Six months later it became "well there are pros and cons". And now here we are, on the verge of enacting another CCP style measure that breaks multiple constitutional rights.
I'm sickened by the accelerating pace at which we are implementing every totalitarians' wet dream. The best of 1984, Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451 combined.
A Japanese documentary filmed in Wuhan to illustrate my point: https://youtu.be/N4ABOJ1y5iM?t=704
This status is private medical information : in France (and all Europe probably) it is illegal to store these datas, unless you use specialized "health datas secure hosting". You cannot legally do it yourself this way.
French Official Documents :
Health Datas Hosting : https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...
Health Datas : https://www.cnil.fr/fr/quest-ce-ce-quune-donnee-de-sante
Name and DOB are reasonably needed to assert the person's identity. Especially in France everyone carries an ID card so people can show ID and certificate together.
Safeguarding private information is important but some must be disclosed as necessary.
I think this is only the address one gives freely to the vaccination/test center and which is not checked by anyone.
I still can't think of any case where it would be useful in conjunction with your vaccination status.
I agree with you that it's not useful information for the purpose of a "health pass" used to gain access to venues and events. On the other hand, as a matter of Covid response strategy and enforcement of any restrictions (so for the authorities at large) it is very useful to know where a person that has tested positive lives.
It might have been useful in this case but the French government itself is not allowed to have a general-purpose database of citizen's addresses. Even the address that the social security has for contact purposes cannot be legally used for this (and is probably unreliable anyway as people forget to update their address when moving) and I don't think many people would have been comfortable with communicating their addresses for the purposes of Covid tracking.
One problem we're having in this pandemic is the squeamish and "can't do" attitude on about everything.
Otherwise, any guest list would now be "medical information".
Previous paragraph : "From that link, they can confirm their attendance, but only if they have a valid health pass."
To me that's just semantics but in fact it is basically a medical status.
In our case, the correlation is even thinner: a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated, and a no means that you either haven't answered the invitation or didn't have a health pass.
In the end, I guess it would be for a judge to decide if that fits the definition of health data, but I am confident enough to leave it online.
That's obviously quite different here.
> a yes in the database means that you have been EITHER tested OR vaccinated
Yes, that's extremely specific and that's why I think that's medical data.
In any case, my take is that this is complicated for no actual reason. I don't see the problem with the data contained in the 2D DOC QR code: Test result is needed, name and DOB is also needed. These are limited, reasonable data to share.
The only thing the database does is to replace test and/or vaccine details by a single flag. In effect the only information removed is indeed whether the person has been tested or vaccinated (unless a test is needed in any case). That seems of little value to me.
In addition to the added privacy, sanipasse has a very practical advantage: for event organizers, they don't have to scan the passes anymore, and for guests, they can validate their pass ahead of time, at home, instead of waiting in line for someone else to scan their pass at the entry of the event.
Here you have a piece of information that very specifically says that persons is negative to Covid or vaccinated. Perhaps its does not say which one it is but my understanding is these are both medical piece of data anyway.
That's why I think this is very different. It's like if the only criterion for diving was being HIV negative. If a driving instructor was provided with a medical certificate that said "Sure, no problem" in that case it would be the same as getting the HIV test status of that person.
In that respect, the advantage of scanning the QR code is that there is no need to store sensitive data anywhere but within the QR code itself, which remains under the control of the individual. I think this is actually one consideration for deciding to implement the system that way.
It's the same with the "validated" boolean information. It does not provide more medical data, it just validates the absence of risk of you participating.
Not having HIV is obviously not required to go scuba diving because it is completely unrelated. But for shooting in certain kinds of movies for instance, you do need to test negative to HIV. And the list of actors in the movie is not considered "medical data".
Therefore you must implement HDS valid data treatments and policy
What about people who don't have phones or printers?
You can trivially fake either, but you can also just claim you are excempt. Almost nobody is, of course, but they are not allowed to ask for documentation and must let the doubt come to your benefit.
In practice, this works mostly. Probably because people don't want to fake their tests, which is a serious crime.