Texas wants to charge Tesla and other EV owners annual fees
cleantechnica.com
cleantechnica.com
When you register your car, you have to say how many miles you drove, and it gets verified every few years with smog checks.
Why not just charge a per mile-ton fee? Maybe give freight trucks a break so we don't kill shipping, or only charge them for their empty weight? Have some of the fee go to the state and some go federally for redistribution (like gas taxes work now).
Then eliminate the gas tax as a source of funding for road maintenance and shift it to a carbon tax? And make EVs come in for a "milage check" since they won't have smog checks.
Then everyone pays fairly for road maintenance based on how much they use the roads, and people driving ICE vehicles will pay for the externality of their pollution through their gas consumption.
So some other mechanism would be required.
Tesla has the mileage data for all of my vehicles. They could even provide mileage driven data by state. I wouldn’t mind clicking an approve button, and have my credit card charged when needed. This is already how my tolls work (albeit with a transponder instead of vehicle telemetry).
Those without telemetry can be provided an exception process until fleet turnover is complete.
A manufacturer does not have a right to post-sale telemetry. They never did, and the only thing that has given it mainstream acceptance is the public's lack of vosibility and understanding of just what it meant was enabled byadding a few key circuit boards to complex equipment.
To be clear, what your friend did wasn't just unethical, it was straight up illegal. In fact, since it was a leased car, he not only broke the law about illegal vehicle modifications, but he also committed fraud against the leasing company.
Also, doing something like that today would be very hard, because very few cars still have mechanical odometers.
Is that right?
The US average looks like 25 mpg and 14,000 miles driven, 560 gallons: $112 or with federal taxes $215.
Works even with larger vehicles as they have more tires.
While I question the intelligence and timing of taxing cars... taxing tires would stop people from replacing tires more than any other rising cost, how?
I also question whether they would "remove" the gas tax... I also question why people wouldn't cross state lines to save money (depending on tax and/or distances - same as nearby where Delaware has no sales tax but the business taxes are higher so it kinda balances out).
It's not a direct correlation, but there appears to be a cliff when people stop driving as much or exchange high consumption vehicles for lower consumption. You can see this effect when gas taxes go up in various states, and also comparing Europe to the USA.
> taxing cigarettes' doesn't stop people from smoking.
It very much does. Every time a state increases their tobacco tax, smoking rates go down.
My preference would be weight-weighted VMT, but that’s a complex solution to implement and manage. And dump truck owners will have a fit.
Socialism for me, but not for thee.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/texas/texas-drivers-pay-20-c...
A Texan driver would have to buy 2000 gallons of gas a year to pay $400 in gas taxes to Texas. That seems pretty high when the average Texan drives 16347 miles per year [1]; it implies fuel economy of only 8.2 MPG at average travel distance. Even the big Ford F-450 has better average fuel economy than that.
[1] https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a32880477/average-mile...
Just make this $150/yr, charge $1/gal tax for ICE cars, that should make it about even.
For comparison I pay $1500 yearly road tax and $4/gal in taxes alone at the pump and I find it too cheap to pollute still.
That's generally how it does work. I mean, yeah, when you hit a certain point, you might forego a bit of profitability a little here and there, but if you can't even get the stuff where it needs to be to do good for less than $X when it used to be $Y where Y<X for less than your overhead + outlay, you have to bump your price ask up to reflect the market reality.
It feels like it shouldn't be that way, but a surprisingly large amount of what makes the modern world work is proxying and physical caching as a business model.
Just a back of the envelope estimate:
With Federal gas taxes of 20 cents per gallon and state levies ranging from 20-60 cents, let's say an average of 40 cents for a total of 60 cents a gallon. ~120 Billion gallons of gas are used each year, say 200 million adult drivers means each adult is paying around .6*120B/.2B = $360 per year in gas taxes. $400 seems to be a reasonable ballpark for the gas tax revenue lost per year.
That's not a revenue stream governments are going to be willing to lose, so as EV popularity increases, you can expect more of this. It doesn't seem too awful, TBH. The alternative would be to have a special levy on electricity, similar to what we do with gasoline, but that's going to hit a lot more than PEV drivers, so if we fund roads with use fees, which we currently do, then paying a few hundred bucks a year in lieu of gas taxes seems fair.
This TX bill seems to have a flat fee + another fee based on mileage, which sounds more reasonable.
Back of the napkin for me says it should be about $0.40/gal given the Texas gas tax is $0.20.
Either way, I suspect that even this is too low and Texas is due for an increase in the gas tax by another $0.10-$0.20 in the next few years. This $400 fee will most likely be the EV taxes moving first, in my estimation.
0: https://comptroller.texas.gov/economy/fiscal-notes/2019/jul/...
$400 / $0.384 = 1042 gallons of gasoline in equivalent taxes.
Typical annual mileage per vehicle runs around 12,000 miles. Most cars get much better than the 11.51 mpg implied by the tax.
So Texas EV users are being financially punished for cleaning up the air. Which is very, very much on-brand for Texas. I'm amazed they aren't outlawed.
This point just doesn't hold, sorry.
I mean, fine. Maybe the gas tax is unfair and we should replace it with something more neutral. Or maybe the gas tax should be viewed as a "sin tax" the way taxes on alcohol and cigarettes and tanning are. Maybe it should be higher, if that's the case.
But whatever side you decide to come down on, wanting a steady source of revenue for road maintenance just isn't related.
In this case, the Texas legislature clearly wants to stick it to the dirty fucking hippies. Their roads are fine and they know it.
(That said, if Texas were to institute a new tax on electrical generation to better regulate its disastrous distribution network, maybe there would be an argument...)
I agree it's motivated by a sort of hyper conservatism; all change is bad and needs to be resisted.
Meanwhile California has down payment and buy back programs for low income people to replace their cars with hybrids and ev's.
That's clearly a less than great outcome that could be remedied through taxation and regulation, but not if you start at taxing EVs.
This is very tricky because roads have so many positive externalities. Even if you live in a walkable neighborhood and don't own a car, you will walk to stores that have goods delivered to them by truck, right to your neighborhood, so you can walk up and buy them. Without all those trucks bringing things close to where you live, you wouldn't have that convenience and would need to get a car yourself. Probably a heavy car since you'd have to haul everything yourself -- everyone would need to drive right up to the factory gate and then transport it back for every good you buy. Imagine what that would do to the road quality! So trucks help use the road more efficiently and actually save the road relative the alternative of not having dedicated trucking.
And not only that, but that fact means local stores are in competition with stores farther away, which drives down prices. So even people who never drive obtain many valuable benefits from the roads that connect their neighborhood to other neighborhoods, and many of these benefits are delivered, so to speak, by trucks. Thus everyone pays for these benefits.
This idea that once there is a road connecting two markets, that prices begin to equalize in them was one of the things observed by Adam Smith when he talked about how local shopkeepers often opposed roads connecting their town to towns with larger markets (and cheaper goods). Now they don't equalize perfectly, they equalize up to transportation costs. Thus lowering transportation costs for the trucks that ship goods between markets results in lower prices for everyone who buys those goods, even if they don't use the road themselves. This is why it makes sense to subsidize the transportation of goods.
Thus our current system makes sense, roads are paid in part from general funds, in part from use fees, and there are some extra fees added to trucks.
I certainly can't concur with a plain "thus our current systems makes sense". I'm sure you have noticed most Americans own large cars regardless.
Subsidise ecological transport, not diesel fumes blown to my face when I walk to my market to buy local produce, not hauled from across continent (I don't really care, but know people who do and they don't seem to sacrifice ton of their life quality by living waste-free).
Even if you should (based on environmental impact or even just road infrastructure impact) tax gas vehicles more. But we know that's not gonna happen here in Texas.
Teslas make up the plurality, and often majority, of electric vehicles sold in the US.
The best place to figure out the fee should be the annual inspection. Plug into the computer, check the mileage, and calculate how many miles were driven since the last inspection. Put it into a calculator, and send out the fee.
Most of the road wear is from trucks, anyway. And I mean big rigs, not an F-150.
Unfortunately too many proposals want to overcharge and or use Orwellian gps surveillance to determine something simple like mileage.
https://www.tmz.com/2021/03/27/pete-buttigieg-biden-administ...
For trucks they already have tachographs which record lots driving parameters but mainly distance, speed, driving time, violations. Gen2 also records GPS coorinates at start and stop so it's harder to defeat. The fleet operators need to keep those records for two years. Penalties for modifying a tachograph are quite high, tens of thousands of euros.
Someone driving a lot in a certain place probably lives already pays property taxes. If they don't register the vehicle there after six months or so it's the police's business to make sure they do.
You see, they don't have to monitor everything very precisely, just 95% or so.
https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/politik/billigere-elbiler-paa-vej-...