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Comment by jasonlaramburu | Hacker News Reader

There are literally zero downsides to wearing a mask in public, and it's crazy that anyone would shame someone for it. In many Asian countries it is considered civilized and thoughtful to wear a mask when feeling ill to prevent the spread of disease. I too hope this becomes the norm in the US.

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You don't think that the continual dehumanization of people into creatures with eyes, hair, and without emotions is a downside to wearing a mask in public? A smile as you hold the elevator door for someone goes unseen; all the other person gets is a withering stare from behind a sterile surgeon's mask. A joke that's good enough to make someone grin but not laugh is now a joke that falls flat on its face. An inappropriate remark that is met with a frown or pressed lips is now emboldened with apparent silence.

Yeah, I think there is some downside to never showing your nose and mouth. Especially when you think of them as more than breathing holes.

You can easily tell whether someone is smiling or not underneath a mask, and I think most people have learned to "smile with their eyes" to make it even more obvious. It's not that big a deal.

Exactly the eye areas of regular humans (non-sociopaths) are very "vocal" as to emotions if you are paying attention.

At the start of all this, I saw someone point out that in Japan, where mask-wearing is more of a thing, their emoticon for smiling is ^_^ while in the US :) is used. One emphasizes the eyes, still visible with a mask on, the other the mouth. (Note: I am not an emoticon expert, let alone a cross-cultural one)

Given the number of women I've seen happy that no one has told them to smile during this pandemic, I guess a lot of folks in the US don't know how to tell when eyes are smiling.

I think it should be 100% the wearer's choice whether they want to show the world their face or not. Saying 'thank you' to someone opening the door is just as good as a smile. Nobody 'owes' anyone else anything.

You were allowed to wear a veil before the pandemic as well, and no one is going to stop you now.

I adopted the Asian custom of wearing a surgical mask when feeling under the weather four years ago, for the record. Got a lot of weird looks on the BART, but also some supportive ones from, you guessed it, Asians.

This is pretty much what I'm intending to do from now on, and retrospectively it is crazy that I thought it was okay not to.

Same here, with the N95 mask because I had those for fire season. Same thing. It was fine.

Surely this is satire.

I really hope it was satire but I can’t tell anymore. If not, I guess now we add “dehumanization” to the list of horrible effects of wearing a little piece of cloth on your face. I really don’t get why so many people are willing to die on this particular silly hill.

I don't have super strong passions here. But reverting to fashion norms seems pretty appropriate, once it's safe. If it's not safe now, when would it be?

People do take a lot of cues from facial expressions and at least in "the West" we rarely wear face coverings. So there's definitely some (mild?) cost to wearing the mask, too.

I will say this, though -- organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors are terribly misguided.

I think people are purposely under-emphasizing the amount of facial communication still possible with a mask on. Never mind that all these dehumanization scenarios conveniently assume people have somehow lost all ability to utter any sort of noise.

If someone wants to continue wearing a mask for a reason with no harmful externalities (e.g. allergies, privacy), respect their personal freedoms and let them.

>organizations that insist on compelling others to wear masks outdoors

Which organizations might those be? State and local governments?

At least in the US, there are more than 50 states/territories, hundreds of cities and more than 3,000 counties. Each of which has separate authority for public health issues.

That said, many (perhaps most?) of those entities have been following the CDC guidelines. Those have now changed. As such. it seems likely that many of those 3,000+ entities will change their policy prescriptions.

> Which organizations might those be? State and local governments?

No, thankfully I think they're probably making mostly good recommendations there. I'm thinking of stuff like outdoor soccer - parents are asked to wear masks in a big open field with no crowds.

I hope it's not. There's a lot of non-verbal communication we miss when wearing masks. It's not as bad as how tone can be hard to communicate on the internet, but it's still not as good as being able to read someone's facial expressions.

Emphatically agreed. Particularly in our increasingly-polarized and dehumanized culture, smiles are worth saving. Masks definitely do have costs. Severe costs for children at school with new teachers/strangers.

“Literally zero downsides” is a bit of an exaggeration, don’t you think? Surely you’ll concede that they make your glasses fog up.

Haha fair but they do have masks with a little bit of foam on the nosepiece for this purpose.

I can't believe I got through (hopefully) most of the covid pandemic fogging up my glasses without knowing this simple solution exists.

There's also defogger you can apply that kind of works (I got it at a hockey store, marketted for the clear face masks some people wear instead of metal cages). An adjusted mask probably works better, but the defogger is better than without in situations where I know my glasses will fog up and I have to have a mask.

I used automotive defog on my glasses.

Then someone showed me the foam...

And prevent me from unlocking my iPhone!

I knew when Apple released the iOS update that lets my Apple Watch unlock my phone when wearing a mask, that it would mean I would very soon not have to use it anymore. Some corollary of Murphy's Law.

Not that I'm complaining!

Really hoping they bring back the fingerprint sensor now. I feel like a monster when I have to lower my mask to unlock my password manager.

If your glasses fog up from wearing a mask, your mask is ineffective.

Get a better mask that actually seals around your face.

Like what kind of mask? In heavy industry or manufacturing environments, I can assure you that nearly all are wearing N95s or surgical masks, and they all cause real issues with safety glasses fogging. It's been a huge problem, alleviated some with the Uvex wipes.

I find the Honeywell consumer mask comfortable for daily low risk wear.

https://ppe.honeywell.com/

If I’m going to be in an enclosed space with lots of anti maskers for a longer period of time I use a 3M elastomer mask with replaceable p100 filters. It’s less comfortable though.

Also to be exceptionally clear, if you are wearing an N95 mask and it is fogging your glasses, it is NOT sealing properly. That condensation is coming from air that’s escaping out the top.

KN94 masks with ear loops are rather less effective as they can’t pull tight enough on the face to seal.

Some see downsides. There's a reason that in many places in the US it was illegal to wear a mask in public before COVID happened. Most of the time it is to prevent potential law breakers from being anonymous, I think. I don't support it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it comes back someday.

It seems pretty unlikely that someone who is already willing to commit a violent crime would care whether or not he violates a mask law.

True, I guess maybe they were more to target groups who wore masks and were/are known for breaking laws. I think some were passed (and definitely at least proposed) to target antifa, and I believe some were also passed to target the KKK.

The point isn't whether you're willing to violate an extra law. It's that pre-COVID, if someone walked towards a bank wearing a mask, they're going to get noticed and attract attention well before they start committing their violent crime, increasing the chance that they're caught.

Yes, but when it's illegal, it's much easier to quickly identify the law breaker before the trouble starts.

That is kind of like saying there is zero downsides to wearing a helmet or a bulletproof vest in public. It’s fine if you want to do it, but people not wanting to do it is also fine. The problem is both sides often have a degree of judgement that their way is better.

Andy Samberg has a hilarious song along these lines, called YOLO. [1] I’m surprised it hasn’t been referenced more during the pandemic, especially when multiple-masking has been discussed.

It is also a hilarious and catchy song in its own right.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Otla5157c

Bulletproof vests and helmets are intended to only protect the wearer. Masks, on the other hand, are supposed to protect the wearer and the people surrounding them. It's not the same

The key part of your statement is "when feeling ill". They don't just wear them all the time though it may seem like that to outsiders (they tend to take "feeling ill" in the lightest respect possible).

You can't say zero because there is the low but still there possibility someone will fight you over and even end up shooting you because of the impending fight. It has happened. Again it's rare but it has happened, and I would say that the risk of an argument and physical altercation over it with Trumpian qultists will increase over time.

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