A Misleading CDC Number
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
I don't understand how this happened. The C.D.C. literally has a manual on how to communicate effectively during an outbreak:
https://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/cerc_2014edition_Copy.pdf
"Throughout this book, six principles of effective crisis and risk communication are emphasized:
1. Be First: Crises are time-sensitive. Communicating information quickly is almost always important. For members of the public, the first source of information often becomes the preferred source.
2. Be Right: Accuracy establishes credibility. Information can include what is known, what is not known, and what is being done to fill in the gaps.
3. Be Credible: Honesty and truthfulness should not be compromised during crises.
4. Express Empathy: Crises create harm, and the suffering should be acknowledged in words. Addressing what people are feeling, and the challenges they face, builds trust and rapport.
5. Promote Action: Giving people meaningful things to do calms anxiety, helps restore order, and promotes a restored sense of control.
6. Show Respect: Respectful communication is particularly important when people feel vulnerable. Respectful communication promotes cooperation and rapport."
You can say that again!
> 1. Be First: Crises are time-sensitive. Communicating information quickly is almost always important. For members of the public, the first source of information often becomes the preferred source.
Fauci saying masks don’t work before he said the opposite.
> 2. Be Right: Accuracy establishes credibility. Information can include what is known, what is not known, and what is being done to fill in the gaps.
Instead of saying they didn’t have enough information about outdoor transmission, they threw out the 10% number as a random CYA. See above about the first number being sticky.
> 3. Be Credible: Honesty and truthfulness should not be compromised during crises.
Fauci saying masks don’t work, and also the 10% number being thrown out there without caveating that it’s a wild ass guess.
> 4. Express Empathy: Crises create harm, and the suffering should be acknowledged in words. Addressing what people are feeling, and the challenges they face, builds trust and rapport.
Fauci berating people for being upset that their lives are being shut down by government orders.
> 6. Show Respect: Respectful communication is particularly important when people feel vulnerable. Respectful communication promotes cooperation and rapport.
Instead of respect, we got demonization of half the country.
I don't think this is entirely fair. I'd invite you to at least listen to what local public health officials were dealing with:
https://khn.org/news/article/public-health-officials-year-of...
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/736/the-herd
A significant and vocal portion of the country thinks its okay to bully and berate officials.
Anna Maria Barry-Jester: "People are not willing to be governed," at least not by officials who ask them to make sacrifices for their neighbors. And as a result, the officials, trying to govern us are quitting in droves. Since the beginning of the pandemic, nearly 250 public health officials working in communities all over the US have left their jobs, many because of threats and political pushback.
Nearly one in six Americans now lives in a community that has lost its local health department leader during the pandemic, officials like Mimi and Gail. It's the largest exodus of health officials in US history.
Or, “I’ll do the job when it’s easy but when it’s hard, gosh I’m trying my best why won’t people just do what I say.”
> I don't think this is entirely fair. I'd invite you to at least listen to what local public health officials were dealing with...
~Half the country was ~demonized (or more importantly: perceive themselves to have been demonized), or they were not. Whether it was ~justified is certainly relevant, but it has no bearing on the fact, and more importantly: the second order behavior that will result from that fact, perhaps for several years.
The CDC guidelines seem to have been written in a way that is mindful of this complexity, but it seems they were not followed for some reason (do you point your critical eye at these shortcomings, and with the same enthusiasm and scrutiny as you point it at the members of your outgroup?), which will likely have some negative consequences, most of which we will be completely oblivious to (not to worry though: we'll imagine plenty of others, and consider these imaginations to be reality).
> A significant and vocal portion of the country thinks its okay to bully and berate officials.
And whose fault is that, comprehensively and accurately? Is the suboptimal behavior of black people in inner city ghettos purely their fault? Should they just work hard and pull themselves up by their bootstraps? INB4: That's different! That's whataboutism! That is not comparable! Mother nature decides how reality unfolds, based on recursive causality far beyond our ability even conceive of, let alone measure and understand. You and I can only decide (to whatever degree we have free will) how we shall conceptualize the situation, and then how we shall act. One can perceive it simply, with a high level of confidence in the correctness of one's biased guesses, or one can exert effort to perceive it more accurately, closer to how it really is: unknown. Just as the people in the article have chosen a way to perceive reality (my guess: low complexity, high confidence), so too do you and I choose a way - and based on such choices, reality unfolds according to the laws of the universe - our respective agreement with how this is, is not a requirement.
Also, some nursing schools have seen record applications, suggesting people actually want to help. You provide no scale for that 250 public health officials.
https://son.rochester.edu/newsroom/2020/record-breaking-enro...
It would be interesting to know why the CDC was chosen as the mechanism for this policy.
But NPR reveals some bias in a couple of instances. For example, they describe how the health officials had to rescind the order prohibiting people from being on the beach because it was impossible to enforce. An unasked question is whether an order to close beaches might have engendered skepticism of public health officials' judgement.
> “We don’t want people from higher-impact counties who maybe haven’t done as good a job as Santa Cruz has to come in and spread that virus,” Hart said. “In ordinary times, we love people coming in, right? Our economy is driven on tourism and agriculture. We want people here during normal times. This is not a normal time. So we don’t want those folks here from Sacramento or other areas,” Hart said.
> The law breakers have been all ages, but a few whom deputies caught were teens who gathered in a car near the beach and passed around a bong, Hart said.
https://santacruzlocal.org/2020/04/09/authorities-close-sant...
Maybe the officials should have left the beaches open and tried a message like "it's okay for Santa Cruz locals to go to the beach, but this thing spreads through the air in enclosed spaces, so please everyone take your own cars or drive with the windows open, and we don't want people from outside communities coming here and spreading the virus."
I believe health officials were generally operating in good faith. That doesn't mean they were always correct. I'd like to ask what they were thinking when they closed the beaches, but I don't think it was a simple calculation.
The reason they’re saying it is pretty obvious to me - a lot of people that just had a cold in the past year think they had COVID. I had a friend that thought he had it twice before he actually did. Also if you didn’t get very sick you might not have had enough of an immune response to get all that immune.
If they explained that, it would be fine. Instead they’re basically doing misinformation of their own. My mother-in-law is concerned that I’m not getting the vaccine. I had COVID bad in December, and I have autoimmune issues so I’m not going to poke the proverbial bear unless I need to.
She also thinks that you’re only immune for three months if you actually got infected, but that’s the media’s fault. They ran all those stories about antibodies only lasting a few months without going in to details about memory T cells or the like.
Donald Trump had Covid19 and was later vaccinated and has the best medical care in the world. Do you think his doctors would have done so if they didn’t believe it was medically justified?
Donald Trump is about the last person on earth I would point to as someone whose actions and motivations should be viewed as straightforward. He's been pumping the vaccines and trying to take credit for them ever since they were approved, and his making a big show of getting the vaccine can easily be viewed in that light.
I don't think this is true:
https://theconversation.com/why-you-should-get-a-covid-19-va...
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/covid-reinfection...
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27102006
> For previously infected people with autoimmune issues there is miniscule upside and some potentially significant downside to getting the shots.
I wasn't addressing that portion of AuryGlenz's comment. Obviously if you have an underlying condition, you should take that into account. The C.D.C. addresses autoimmune conditions here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommend...
> Donald Trump is about the last person on earth I would point to as someone whose actions and motivations should be viewed as straightforward. He's been pumping the vaccines and trying to take credit for them ever since they were approved, and his making a big show of getting the vaccine can easily be viewed in that light.
He didn't make a big show of it. He made no show of it at all. I'm not appealing to his judgement. I'm appealing to the judgement of his doctors.
Also, I’m far from an expert but wouldn’t the vaccines only produce antibodies for the spike protein as opposed to an actual infection producing antibodies for the spike protein and the virus itself?
I don't think that's true, certainly not to the point of “well established.”
Here's another source:
Which produces a stronger immune response: a natural infection or a vaccine?
The short answer: We don’t know. But Covid-19 vaccines have predictably prevented illness, and they are a far safer bet, experts said.
Vaccines for some pathogens, like pneumococcal bacteria, induce better immunity than the natural infection does. Early evidence suggests that the Covid-19 vaccines may fall into this category. Volunteers who received the Moderna shot had more antibodies — one marker of immune response — in their blood than did people who had been sick with Covid-19.
In other cases, however, a natural infection is more powerful than a vaccine. For example, having mumps — which can, in rare cases, cause fertility problems in men — generates lifelong immunity, but some people who have received one or two doses of the vaccine still get the disease.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immu...
I am also not an expert, so my first link is to someone who is (an immunologist). She cites various sources for why she recommends still being vaccinated. Of course, while she is A doctor, she isn't your doctor.
What I think is that a lot of people posting here are certain they are right, while what most doctors seem to be saying is: "we're not certain, but vaccination is low risk and provides reliable immunity."
Now, those doctors aren't your doctors. They're making a general recommendation. Your doctor, knowing your specific health history, will likely be able to make a more informed recommendation.
Ultimately this is a cost/benefit analysis. There seems to be less benefit to being vaccinated for people who have previously been infected vs those who haven't. You need to weigh that smaller benefit against the risk of vaccination. If the risk of harm from vaccination is smaller than the risk of re-infection, isn't it still worth getting vaccinated?
Anyway, hacker news comments aren't medical advice and I am highly skeptical of folks posting here with such certainty about matters outside their expertise, especially about an emerging disease.
There is definitely a lot more than 80. My impression is that the mRNA vaccines are more effective than natural immunity.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/can-you-get-covid-tw...
Except that he wasn't seen taking the vaccine. AFAIK, he's only once even mentioned it.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-covid-19-vaccine-january-...
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/01/politics/trump-melania-vaccin...
He didn't appear in a PSA with former presidents:
https://www.abc4.com/coronavirus/watch-former-u-s-presidents...
It's also wrong regardless. "Three months" came from studies that only lasted three months / were early in the pandemic, and actually meant "at least three months".
There are newer ones now that say "at least 8 months", and even that is several-months old news.
An I correct in remembering the CDC taking its talking points from the Chinese officials who had a vested interest in spreading disinformation and falsehoods about where and how the virus started?
Effectively, they're in-house politicians who serve the (PR) interests of elected politicians.
Actual independent health professionals aren't the ones doing the communication; and have been generally forbidden from doing so.
There's one trick they can do to regain trust—move their website, publications, datasets, press releases, *everything* to git (https://breckyunits.com/how-to-fix-the-cdc.html).
I wish they came out and said:
"We understand we will constantly make mistakes and bad actors will constantly try to influence us. To counter that, we will make it painless for people to fork and correct. Every change will be open, attributable and signed."
I'm talking about a full executive order, and I had a lot of expertise and was being tasked with helping agencies, including the VA and DOE, open up their data. HHS was also part of this.
I was immediately blocked in all of these agencies with foot-dragging, and a complacent, "I couldn't give a fuck" attitude. They didn't care about enacting the order, because unlike me, they all knew that there would be no consequences for not doing so. They didn't do it, and there were no consequences.
I voted for Obama twice, but one of the things I noticed about his administration was that they weren't willing to strike fear into the hearts of bureaucrats who undermined their objectives. Another executive program he pushed, for properly integrating military health systems with the VA's health systems, was also actively ignored by the VA, with zero consequences. That experience was the final straw for me to leave and join the private sector, and get out of DC permanently.
It's the presidency -- just playing favorites carries a lot of weight. Or even threatening to cockblock anything they're looking to do for the next 8 years, by swinging party support.
A less charitable/borderline hostile take: Biden is extremely likely to not run for re-election (due to his health), and has some extremely ambitious legislation he is pushing which will cement his legacy. He and his advisers don't believe they will maintain control of the House of Representatives in 2022, and are justifying many of these changes with the crisis of the pandemic. If the pandemic doesn't appear to be a crisis, the odds of this legislation being passed are lower.
Probably the most frustrating part of all of this is the fact that the April job's numbers (1 million jobs predicted, actual was a 1/4 of that) were hand-waved away with "people can't work when their kid's schools are shut", as if the administration hasn't helped justify schools remaining closed in certain states. (I live in Colorado, a blue state, and our schools have been open since January with no issues, as opposed to Oregon, where they are still closed.)
This is false. I live in Oregon and my kid's school has been open since February. Both our elementary school and middle school are dealing with a minor COVID-19 outbreak too and they're small schools in a very wealthy city (median household income is over 110k), so I question the authenticity of your "no issues" comment regarding Colorado schools.
EDIT: just checked, our local high school has more than double the cases of our elementary and middle school combined. Yeah I'm really doubting the "no issues" part, but I guess "issue" is relative
I'm sorry, but this is part of the misinformation. Of course there are positive cases of COVID in schools, and of course high schools (my son is a freshman) have higher rates. This is explained by the science, which clearly shows that high school age groups have dramatically higher rates of transmission.
It's more about the risks. All of the teachers in Colorado were prioritized for vaccines. They are all vaccinated in my county (Jefferson County, which has almost 600,000 residents). Which leaves the bigger question: What's the risk to the students, and to the people they can spread it to?
To the students, the data clearly shows that it's minimal, unless they have comorbidities.
According to the CDC's latest data, here: https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics
350 people between ages 5-17 have died of COVID in the US. This age group represents 16.3 percent of the US population, or roughly 56 million people.
You were correct that I was wrong about Oregon. My brother's kids are still out of school because his wife is terrified of them catching covid, and she kept them remote. They are ages 5 and 7, respectively. She's been one of the most extreme overreacters in the pandemic. She lived like a shut in for 8 months, and she's healthy and in her 30s.
Now onto the question of the danger the kids pose to the public by spreading covid to their families or vulnerable people.
At this point, the majority of Americans over 60 are vaccinated. Vulnerable people were prioritized. Which is why you aren't seeing news reports of droves of people dying in Colorado as a result of schools being opened.
All of these decisions represent trade-offs, but too many in the US public seem to not understand relative risk. I am safer if I wear a helmet when I drive my car than otherwise, but I'm not going to, for the same reason you don't.
The things Trump did and said regarding the pandemic were so consistently and profoundly idiotic, they made the bumbling bureaucrats around him look like sages. And his empty threats and blustering emboldened them, and amplified the worst of the covid scolds in opposition.
Everything we can fault Fauci for is equally on Trump's head.
But his presidency broke so many people's brains that folks like yourself immediately read into any criticism of Biden as being motivated due to somebody being 'on the other side'.
I really don't care for the childish game of red blue sectarianism.
Complex topics require nuanced discussion. But instead it turns into the most base instinct form of information filtering, where folks look at who you are friends with or who you follow on Twitter and immediately dismiss any opinion you have based on that. It's incredibly low brow and anti-intellectual and I can't believe it's become such a popular form of debate on the left, like it already was on the right.
I have the board game "pandemic" which came out some years before COVID, and I remember thinking about how cool the CDC was, as though it was one of the few agencies that had its shit somewhat together (the only other which springs to mind is NASA though no doubt NASA also has its share of mismanagement). Boy was I wrong.
"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it."
It's why they waited so long to acknowledge aerosol spread and still stick to droplet based modeling of indoor spaces despite acknowledging aerosol spread being dominant. It's why they say 6ft still re: droplets even though aersols don't care about 6ft. It's why they (and states) still let people use ineffective unfit "masks" instead of requiring (and supplying) everyone with N95 or better.
I just don't understand what exaggerating outside spread does to help them with this. If anything it suggests that outdoors we'd need to use more N95 masks. It seems to go against all their past behavior.
If you look at the data, there does not appear to be a decrease in infection numbers relative to their neighbors after the switch to FFP2[3].
[0] https://orf.at/stories/3197782/
[1] https://www.focus.de/finanzen/recht/verschaerfte-massnahmen-...
[2] https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/0...
[3] https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explor...
The shielding was just a pice a plastic hanging from the ceiling, not some kind of box. So the cashier was breathing the same air as everybody else.
But the CDC recommendations have been so poorly thought out so far, it's hard to blame anyone who would say "screw your judgment of evidence, give us a number"
Also: For a disease that we now know is airborne/aerosol spread rather than airborne/droplet, N95 and KN95 masks are highly effective, a two layer cloth mask fit tightly over a surgical mask is moderately effective, and a cloth mask by itself is largely for show. I still see people saying you should NOT use N95 masks (they're cheaply and widely available now) while donning a neck gaiter pulled up over their mouth. It's another area where the initial messaging was terrible (in this case out of the good intention of reserving them for healthcare workers) and unfortunately has persisted.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-8511HB1-C-PS-Sanding-Fiberglass-Re...
or this?
https://www.amazon.com/AccuMed-Respirator-Filtration-Disposa...
I've had a box of the former out in the garage for a couple of years; before 2020, if you looked for an "N95" mask, that's what you would find. But they're not terribly useful in a medical situation.
Or tape over it (securely).
I mean, who's "we"? I knew this back in January 2020.
But usually you cannot wear (properly) a N95 for more than two/three hours without having your face with deep signs (and of course you need to be clean shaven).
A "generic" N95 used by untrained people and loosely worn, isn't that much better a protection for the person wearing it than a surgical mask, while both are quite good at protecting other people from the "emissions" of the person wearing the mask (of course only if it is valveless).
Previous post with a link to a video of a proper "fit test" and some more info about valve and valveless: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23957506
The CDC set the bar really high (10%), so that they could provide public health guidance without getting caught in bickering about error-rate or statistical anomaly traps. The CDC tried to avoid pedantry and are now getting pedant-ed for that too.
Ultimately this is a distinction without a difference, since "less than 1%" is included in "less than 10%." The CDC covered their back, and the public health guidance was identical.
If you need more nuance to avoid miscommunicating but you do not give it, you have miscommunicated.
I have been in college level stat classes where many people didn't truly grasp confidence interval. While I would love the data, I think it's not really the most important thing during a crisis.
As far as public health policy goes this is a distinction without a difference. Everything else is just pointless pedantry.
They said it is less than 10%, and now we have a bunch of people "correcting" them that it could be actually less than 1%. That correction is unhelpful/pointless/pedantic.
If the statement is still true, and the public health guidance is identical, then what is it we're even discussing? This discussion is pointless and the article itself is pointless.
The CDC cannot win no matter what they do. They say it is "less than 1%" then someone will find a study that shows that they're wrong, if they say "less than 10%" then people will say that isn't precise enough and that they're wrong.
Their job is to pick the most accurate number they can.
And by accurate I don't mean "most mathematically correct", because that would be "less than 100%".
Making an accurate estimate isn't about winning or losing. It will never be perfect. Oh well, still have to try.
You see how "less than 100%" would be a horrible number to pick, right? Wanting more accuracy is not pedantry.
(Also, the word "casual" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. There absolutely have been documented examples of outdoor transmission via, for example, people going for walks together or chatting with each other outside. So if people think that this means all outdoor interaction is safe, as the article seems to be inviting them to do, this could cause some real problems.)
Well, you could look at the infection rates among people who attended large outdoor gatherings during the pandemic in spite of warnings - like Trump rally attendees or BLM protesters.
Or you could look at infection rates for people who have a tractable list of possible exposures - interview only people who live alone and work from home, and see if people who only shop for food have a lower infection rate than people who shop for food and also golf once a week.
Or you could run an experiment - get some infected people, have them cough at petri dishes inside and outside, with and without masks, and at different distances.
There are ways to predict your chances of getting infected from someone outdoors. You back-trace from known cases, identify the people they have interacted with, and from those that later contracted Covid, you note whether the contact was indoors or outdoors. There is plenty of data to do that with.
That is an illogerate statement. 10%, and 1%, and .1% are vastly different and lead to vastly different decision making.
Just like when my boss asks for a schedule: 1 to 100 days.
I don't envy the CDC, it is almost impossible to communicate anything even slightly complicated. When they announced that vaccinated people could gather in small groups, at least one person I know interpreted that as saying it was low-risk to go to church in a large gathering with singing.
I feel like a given citizenry can tolerate in-the-moment-incompetence, but they expect to be validated later in turn, and not just in the history books.
That will hurt people. Wearing a mask too often outdoors will not. It's really major news requiring a special article to say the number of outdoor transmissions may be overstated from 1% to 10%? So what?
> C.D.C. officials have placed such a high priority on caution that many Americans are bewildered by the agency’s long list of recommendations. Zeynep Tufekci of the University of North Carolina, writing in The Atlantic, called those recommendations “simultaneously too timid and too complicated.”
What basis is there for this claim? I find them straightforward, and I find the CDC website clear and well-designed. I just wear a mask when I'll be near other people, and I avoid being near them.
Ranting at an easy target, a government institution, is commonplace, senseless entertainment. It's often harmless - but not in this case.
So people will meet inside rather than outside, not realising what a huge difference it makes, thus increasing infection.
I have family members who still disinfect all their shopping, but don't even open the windows when they have guests round. Prioritisation is essential here, not everybody is going to be perfect, and if they are compromising on the wrong measures due to miscommunication then that's a massive failure.
I don't see that. The CDC used the number 10%; that doesn't convey that outside is dangerous and you should seek cover.
I'm extremely grateful that the NYT is calling this out. However, they are far too late, and frankly, played a role in misinforming the public on the pandemic.
The audience on HN is pretty strongly aware of the extreme misinformation on COVID pushed out by right-wing news organizations, but doesn't SEEM to be aware of the extreme misinformation that was pushed out by the left-wing news outlets, which successfully skewed the US public's perception of COVID risk.
The partisan divide on THIS specific topic shows that American's on both sides of the political divide grossly overestimate the likelihood of hospitalization from COVID, but that those who consume left-wing media are an order of magnitude more incorrect.
Here's a good breakdown, containing links to the source polling data on the topic.
https://www.brookings.edu/research/how-misinformation-is-dis...
I wasn't quite aware of how misinformed highly educated colleagues were until I contracted COVID in mid-February. My wife and I couldn't understand why people were acting like I was in so much danger, until we realized that people were grossly overestimating, by massive factors, the danger I was in. I'm a physically fit, active male in my late 30's. But people on my team acted very surprised that I didn't miss any work, and only had a loss of sense of smell as a symptom. They were acting as if I was somewhat of an outlier, instead of being the absolute norm for my age group/health status.
The implications of this fear-mongering results in me being treated like a leper for not wearing a mask on hiking trails in wide open, wind-blown, and sunny open spaces.
It's been a big reminder to me, that no, people on the left aren't actually less prone to misinformation, despite my preconceived notions and biases. Quantitative illiteracy in the majority of the American public has had horrific effects in this pandemic.
Talking to them about the actual risks triggers an emotional response. Even relating the risk level to something they do every day like driving seems to have no effect.
These are people who are educated and consume news from respectable sources.
Very well said!
What I'm very curious about is what makes me perceive risk so much differently than these others. I'm wondering if it's conditioning (I spent a big chunk of my life building houses, and therefore climbing on extension ladders and walking on roof trusses was a daily ritual), childhood (I was in unstable environments a lot), or just brain wiring from birth.
A respondent on your comment mentioned a willingness to "outsource judgement to news sources" and even better "outsourcing judgement to political rivals and adopting the opposite viewpoint by default". This is a phenomenon that I anecdotally notice is intensified with educated elites. My brother's wife went to Cornell, never struck me as particularly creative or novel, but just has a great work ethic and follows what books tell her to do. She's a born rule follower, and follows conventional wisdom to the point where it borders on comical and often, defying common sense.
I'm guessing conditioning is a big part of it.
I'd wager the majority or people with more hysterical reactions have lived fairly comfortable lives, without having to face much in the way of dangerous risks. And without that, they also fail to also learn that risks and dangers can be controlled and mitigated. Or that even mild preparedness can mean the difference between recoverable injury and death. So absent this personal experience of a counterpoint to the hysteria on the news, they're more likely to accept prognostications of certain horrible doom uncritically.
Now healthy people with a fraction of a percent risk of hospitalization, much less death, act like agoraphobes - apparently willing to do so indefinitely.
Far removed from the experience of the world as it is, dependent on the comfort of advanced human technology, people have become debilitated by the mere idea of the challenges that their ancestors overcame and readily coped with.
Courage is gone, and it's perhaps the most important virtue that allows one to get through life and face the insurmountable challenges that all of us will encounter.
I think a willingness to face temporary discomfort is something that seems to be in decline with specific members of the younger cohort of the millennial generation. This translates to journalism where you have a new generation of journalist who produces clickbait all day but never goes and interviews people in person and certainly doesn't do so over the phone. Think about how many people you know are unwilling to make phone calls and prefer text messages almost exclusively. That's not a huge deal but many of these same people are extremely uncomfortable interacting over a telephone with strangers. It's a really bad recipe for quality journalism.
Any attempt to have nuanced discussions on these topics immediately makes the sectarian politicos come out in droves and assume that you are a supporter of the previous president even if you aren't.
Trying to discuss the extremely plausible scenario of an accidental lab leak makes people assume you're a Trump supporter, for example. My opinion is that if he wasn't so ridiculously ignorant and unwilling to show vulnerability by engaging in topics he knows nothing about and attempting to learn, we would be in a much better place with this pandemic. Instead he didn't want to do that and simply offloaded all thinking to Fauci, but then simultaneously would attack him whenever he was speaking to certain groups.
I'd much rather that people would wish me a fulfilling life in which I available myself of many rich experiences.
Unsurprisingly safety is invoked in a variety of ways when certain people encounter ideas they don't like.
Doing so allows a person to completely sidestep the responsibility of mounting an argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Coddling_of_the_American_M...
If someone wants to be an agoraphobe, they can do so. But what bugs me is that these newly-minted agoraphobes seem to treat their agoraphobia with the same fervor and source of moral purity as a religion. To speak the heresy that one might have some control over what existential dangers await beyond one's front door is met with the same screeching panic that would follow suggesting all pre-pubescent children should be required to participate in satanic sex orgies. By refusing to be (as much as) a victim, you are an active threat to all that is good and true in the world.
I like to joke that I don't go outside because the day star is trying to kill me with radiation burns. And then I laugh at my silliness, put on sunscreen, and go outside anyway. But imagine being scolded by someone that, your not-easily-burning darker skin be damned, because you don't think you need sunscreen, you are the reason their dearest grandmother died of skin cancer. All the while recording you with their phone so the whole Internet will know that you, a science-denying anti-sunscreener, are also a killer-of-grandmas.
It's kinda like that.
Oh yea, I'm gay and it clicked to me recently that the gay clubs I go to are basically just monasteries now. It used to be that gay people were known for unabashedly saying what couldn't be said (the profane) - it's now the complete opposite, gay people largely are enumerating an endless list of what's considered profane. Constant pearl-clutching, tip-toeing, hushed gossip, forced repentance and excommunication.
It's hard not to see the illiberal attitudes on the left (which at least in recent history were concentrated on the right, a consequence of their rigid sense of morality and tradition) as nothing more than rule-book fanatics evangelizing and prescribing a sacred morality.
John McWhorter calls these people The Elect, and I think correctly identified that this is fundamentally a religion. It spans all sorts of topics, but maintains the same character, for instance, in something like anti-racism:
https://johnmcwhorter.substack.com/p/the-elect-neoracists-po...
I was helping my 60 year old dad fasten some trusses a few months ago for the first time since I was a teen and damn, I was nervous as he walked along the fastened ones to do some fiddling needed in the middle beam. I know I wasn’t nearly as quick to follow instructions when I was 15 and was doing this all the time and it felt normal.
A walk in a park vs a picnic of 20 people in a park from different households.
The former's risk is probably nil; the latter's not. However, I've seen this last fall...
If outdoor transmission happened, you would see some documented cases. It’s not just all strangers walking past each other on the street.
- We all know about the WHO and their statement on masks.
- Distinctly remember people saying, "We don't know if antibodies offer protection," (in contrast to every other known sickness afaik). Turns out they do and they are superior to vaccine - Doesn't matter follow the same precautions as everyone. I know people who have had antibodies for over a year, but nobody would hang-out with them because immunity wasn't explained to the lay-people.
- So much hand-wringing about whether the vaccine prevents transmission. Seemed like a given. Turns out it was a given.
- Still so much hand-wringing about vaccinated people. Given 30% of america is vaccinated, it seems obvious that anybody vaccinated can pretty much go no-mask, no precautions, and if all the vulnerable populations are vaccinated then everybody can go no-mask. Basically America should be 100% open, and the .0001% who are vulnerable but can't get a vaccine can wear masks and quarantine.
It's simply unacceptable for professionsals to say "We don't know X, we'll let you know in 3 months." If you don't know about the India variants and the vaccine, spend 100k to FLY-OUT 1,000 vaccines to India same day, inoculate 1000 volunteers, and track them. You'll have your answer within 40 days. Do this for every variant, it's not rocket-science.
If there's something I'm missing, then they need to explain it about 10x better than they are doing so far. Feels like a bunch of middle-managers.
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tl; dr - CDC needs to be managed by some software engineers apparently.
Edit - Feel free to justify those downvotes if you think you can.
2. It's not a given that a vaccine prevents transmission. Being an asymptomatic carrier is a real thing.
3. This statement shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how vaccination works. The vaccine is only 90% effective. If vaccinated people are swimming in a sea of COVID, then roughly 10% of them will go on to get COVID. You're also ignoring the fact that as of today children under 16 can't get vaccinated AT ALL, and so beyond whether they die or get critically ill from it, they are contributing to the sea of COVID that can infect vaccinated senior citizens.
3. Studies take time. Knowing how variants perform vs. vaccines is not a matter of people flying on a plane. It's a matter of running a study long enough to see who gets infected and who doesn't. You seem to be completely unaware of the classic project management warning that it takes 9 months to have a baby, 9 mothers can't have one in one month.
On masking in public, you also need to understand that we have to have rules that are manageable. You can't say "oh vaccinated people, you can stop wearing masks in public", because then every storekeeper needs to query every non-masker to ask whether they are vaccinated - and of course they are all going to say yes, and they are even going to carry fake vaccination cards to prove their point. It's just an untenable situation, and additionally as long as COVID is in open spread with tens of thousands of cases per day, vaccinated people are still vulnerable.
Firstly, the entire premise of the article is not grounded in fact, it's based on multiple in-conclusive statements and reports. Just read the language in the first few sentences - "almost certainly", "appears to be partly based on", "seems to be an exaggeration". But the article then proceeds as if that were fact.
It then tries to reach unsupported conclusions that feed into a convenient narrative at the expense of an inconvenient reality.
That outdoor transmission may have been low is inseparable from the fact that the general population HAVE been distancing, cleaning, masking and other responses. So to conclude that since "<10% is too big of an estimate" masks should not be required for any outdoor activity is gross.
It signs off by concluding that Britain's drop in death rate since January is based on Britain being locked down indoors and carefree outdoors completely ignores the fact that vaccinations have been ramping up.
If you have a genuine conclusion then you don't need weasel words and misleading logic to tell your story.