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Comment by gshixman | Hacker News Reader

I've been my oldest child case with this very topic to the point they eye-roll me everytime I bring it up. To be clear, they often claim they've lost a shoe or toy just after literally walking past it or accidentally knocking it under a table or chair. I guess its also a prevalent issue for young adults as well as children now? (Table 2-1, specifically)

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There's a certain cognitive priming that I have to do in order to be effective at searching for things that I've lost. 'Think of where you had it last' doesn't really help because that's frequently a complete blank. Instead I need to project a mental image of the item into the space I'm searching to prime whatever pattern matcher is in my head. Without that my eyes will literally pass right over the object and not pick it out of the noise.

My wife, of course, had no such limitation. 'THEY'RE. RIGHT. HERE.' a common exasperation of hers as our departure time and planned arrival time converge.

I have a trick that helps me. I say out loud, "I'm looking for ____ " or "Where is ____". The vocalization focuses me, and hearing the word makes my eyes jump to the item if it's in field of view. Sometimes, I find myself stopped, staring at a part of the wall, not sure what's going on, but there is the item at the base of the wall in the corner. Just had to move my eyes more but my whole body was answering the question for me.

I really do feel like I'm holding the reins of a big dumb animal sometimes.

That nonverbal commune with the dumb animal has happened to me a few times. The very first time was so loud and profound it really blew me away.

I was in the bathroom early one morning and found myself staring blank-brained at my eyes in the mirror. Kind of like that sense you get when you suddenly realize you're looking into an open refrigerator, I knew I had just walked in there for some reason but it wasn't coming to me. Meds? No. Shower? I don't think so. Shave? ... ... *pokes out chin* ... man I'm looking a little rough ... and just then, as I start getting distracted with the unkempt dude in the mirror, my right arm raises without any provocation and *angrily* mimes brushing my teeth. Like three.hard.rakes across the grill and then back down.

As soon as that happened it's like someone unclicked pause in my brain and everything flooded back. Brushing my teeth! So I grabbed my toothbrush and toothpaste and as I'm dosing it up with a fresh blob I think wait...what the fuck was that? It was like my arm was possessed and tired of me being an idiot lol.

There are some crazy experiments involving brain injury or brain surgery patients that lost control of their limbs temporarily, including solving problems involving physical manipulation completely outside their conscious recognition when the vocal centers of the brain are isolated.

It's almost terrifying how only a small part of the brain can vocalize, but all parts of the brain are communicating and "thinking". My takeaway is that we observe ourselves and tell stories about it, but have much less real free will than we think.

I've recently started doing this and has helped me find things much more efficiently. I project the image in my head, and make a mental note of the item's physical attributes such as size, color, etc. Once primed with this info, I go about doing a linear scan around my house.

Usually I'm searching aimlessly while thinking about something completely unrelated and I'm not bothering to be focused at all. The first step is to realize that I'm about to start looking for my keys in the same room for the third time and to stop and actually bother to focus and to bring the task to the foreground instead of the background.

Looking for my keys though is a minor annoyance and I'd rather be thinking about something else, so this isn't something I think needs fixing. It isn't driving a vehicle.

Tile. Know it, love it, accidentally click it in an elevator or in a movie theater.

Edit: I dated a girl once who couldn't tell cars apart, and had a really hard time finding hers or anyone elses.

I have this issue, but no ability to project mental images. Generally, I manage by ensuring everything has a place to be, then I only need to worry when something is not in the right place.

This is counter to my wife who can remember where most things are when placed somewhere random. We mostly manage, but she is the official house 'finder of things'.

Where I seem to have the most difficulty is entirely my domain - The garage. I put tools down mid work and spend a bunch of time finding them again moments later.

Constantly being on a kid's case for not behaving/thinking like you do isn't likely to work out well unless you actually know where the disconnect is.

Not everyone processes or thinks the same way.

With respect, I'm keenly aware that they think differently, and as for the disconnect, it's because they're an adolescent with a brain that is still figuring out their body. Unfortunately, Pavlovian reinforcement is sadly sometimes necessary to get a point across, especially when its a repetitive issue.

My parents took that approach, which resulted in me not getting an ADD diagnosis until I was in my mid 30s. While I've been fortunate in life overall, it's no exaggeration to say my life would be dramatically different for the better if I'd learned what was actually going on as a kid.

If you view parenting as a pavlovian process rather than mutual communication and learning, then I'm here to warn you that if you walk down that path far enough, you will experience a day where you discover your children loathe you.

What would you have preferred?

For them to realize something was going on beyond "doesn't apply himself" or similar phrasing that attributed what was happening to a combination of laziness and character flaw and to then consult an actual professional.

Instead I got a whole lot of punishment, much of it physical, because my parents are also evangelical extremists.

I feel sorry for you to hear about that. Hope you're ok :)

Thanks for the kind words. I have my issues but in the big picture I'm no doubt one of the luckiest humans walking this planet and have zero illusions about it.

I'm struggling to understand how Pavlovian training can develop a skill for finding lost objects.

I think it's a form of dependency/laziness. The best approach I know is to not think for them and have them help themselves to get better at independence and self-/world-awareness.

Yeah, it is. Especially people posting comments to spoon-feed them an explanation of something rather than research it for themselves. It's a form of learned helplessness.

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