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Comment by ackbar03 | Hacker News Reader

Lol this was my first reaction as well, they now have a nation-state on their ass. But that being said its not impossible that this was just a cover for a Russian state-sponsored attempt on US infra

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If I were running the Russian hacking center in charge of pwning US infrastructure, I'd be pissed as hell. This is like getting vaccinated -- all of a sudden we're going to take this seriously and patch a bunch of exploits that they've had ready to go.

Maybe this gang doesn't need to worry about the US going after it, it needs to worry about the FSB going after it for screwing up its game plan...

"nation-state" is not just a fancy infosec word for country, and there's some debate as to whether the USA constitutes an actual nation state, rather than a state.

> A nation state is a state in which a great majority shares the same culture and is conscious of it. It has been described as a political unit where the state and nation are congruent. It is a more precise concept than "country", since a country does not need to have a predominant ethnic group. [1]

Interesting.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_state

nation-state" is not just a fancy infosec word for country,

This is pedantic and adds no value. In what sense could the precise definition of "nation state" matter? in this context everyone understands the phrase in exactly the way it's meant -- a resourceful national government.

:thums-up:

Some people can’t stop fighting “blasphemy,” even if they aren’t in a classic religion.

The USA is absolutely a nation state. Cocal-cola, mcdonalds, Christmas, enlgish, etc. are well dispersed throughout the entire population. We have a uniform culture, although not as uniform as much smaller countries, but uniform nonetheless.

Arguably the "nation" of the USA extends into England, Australia, Israel and a few other places which have taken a lot of the culture.

> Cocal-cola, mcdonalds, Christmas, english

These are well dispersed throughout the world...

Cultural dominance isn’t an argument against national cohesion.

We regret to inform you that language is mutable.

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A megasophia of wisdom.

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto not exactly what you are looking for, but :)

Also French has an official body that authorizes words.

Yes, because the Russian state has nothing better to do then inconvenience the operation of a foreign fuel pipeline for a few days.

Russia and China have been suspected of doing things like this for years. And who says it's just to inconvenience them? There will other things happening because of this and this could impact other nations in a postive manner.

> Russia and China have been suspected of doing things like this for years.

By who? People who never provide evidence for their claims?

> There will other things happening because of this and this could impact other nations in a postive manner.

While it's certainly possible that the FSB is playing 59-dimensional chess, here, hoping for a true butterfly-effect sequence of causality, I think the onus is on you to demonstrate that.

> By who? People who never provide evidence for their claims?

By lots of countreies. The US charged 4 chinese military officers for hacking Equifax.

> While it's certainly possible that the FSB is playing 59-dimensional chess, here, hoping for a true butterfly-effect sequence of causality, I think the onus is on you to demonstrate that.

You seem to think that it would require multiple things to fall into place to benefit a foreign country. Say you want to manipulate the price of the fuel. Increasing the costs of transport would do that.

Hacking Equifax[1] makes sense, because it directly useful for intelligence work. Find people of interest who have credit problems, and lean on them. [2]

This isn't even a blip on the radar of global fuel prices. It is completely lost in the noise. [3]

[1] Or the OPM, since it was kind enough to have lists of 'all spies operating abroad' on its intranet. Whoops.

[2] I mean, you could also just pose as a landlord or employer, and ask for credit checks on them, it costs ~$30 per query, but it is what it is.

[3] If the FSB really wants to increase demand for fuel, they should try stalling a junker or two on an interstate bridge... Imagine the fuel wasted from all the cars idling, or taking detours!

I'm just pointing out countries have been hacking each other for ages and specifically infrastructure. Which was originally stated as absurd because there is no benefit to them, which considering you don't know all the basic effects this attack is having. And who said they wanted to raise global fuel prices?

End of the story is intelligence agencies around the world have been bulking up for cyber warfare for at least a decade. Russia and China have been been fingered repeatedly for cyber attacks. It is not completely outlandish that one of them is behind it for whatever reason. I'm pretty sure the entire point of these agencies is that we don't know what do or why they do them.

Believe it or not, massive governments that employ hundreds of thousands of people are capable of doing multiple things simultaneously.

I don't think there's any evidence this was state-sponsored, or even state-approved, but "oh there's better things to do" is not a good argument in the least.

I'll keep it in mind the next time a horse bolts from a barn in some foreign country - 'Clearly, this was the CIA's doing. There's no evidence for it, but they have the capability, and their motives are sufficiently sinister and shadowy, and while there's no reason for them to be engaging in medium-scale hooliganism on the other side of the world, they could be the ones responsible!'

The Russian Government had huge motive for this attack, they were not at all happy about the United States' retaliation for SolarWinds/Election interference. Shutting down a major oil pipeline in the United States is not "medium-scale hooliganism."

Also shouting 'No Evidence' is a typical tactic the propagandists use to cast doubt and muddy the waters; surely the attackers would love to see what evidence is available, so they can adapt - that's why evidence is largely kept private.

Why do you assume that propagandists only work for them?

What makes you think propagandists on our side would never use lack of evidence to make whatever they want up, and cite your exact reason as justification?

This is medium-scale hooliganism in the sense that the end result isn't going to accomplish more than a dedicated idiot with a toolbox, and a grudge against gas pipelines couldn't achieve. IT will clean things up, operations will resume, life will go on.

Not to mention that this gives the industry another, rather low-stakes kick in the ass to take IT security seriously.

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