Suicide by Culture (2017)
250bpm.com
250bpm.com
Umm... abstinence causes people to have sex with animals?
Count me as more than a little skeptical.
This essay is a "just so" story, full of completely unsubstantiated assertions.
As a foreigner from a smaller nation, my experience is that the way to have "substantiated" assertions about your history is to have British or French scientists misunderstand it and write a paper in the Royal Society Journal or some similar nonsense.
The way to have "unsubstantiated" assertions is to ask grandma, who was there.
I'm more concerned about the source (the Internet), but if this were in a local paper, I'd trust assertions like the ones here much more than imperial scientists.
Japan during much of the Tokugawa period (after 1700) is an example of that kind of self-stabilizing population. They used:
* Abortion
* On-birth infanticide (don't be quick to judge)
* Delayed marriage (which also means more years of celibacy before marriage I guess?)
https://international.uiowa.edu/sites/international.uiowa.ed...
and AFAICT this was not government-enforced or even strongly-government-encouraged.
Why the hell not? That’s not a particularly enlightened solution.
* If you keep your baby, you are nearly-guaranteeing hunger of your family or your village in 10 years or so. And people in your community would hold a grudge against you and your child for it, from day one.
* The cultural norm regarding when life is sacred was different. Many people in the US believe in-womb abortion is not particularly enlightened either.
This is really not the case, in the western world fertility dropped steadily through the 19th century. People had some control over the reproductive process even without the pill/latex condoms. By the year 1900, TFR was already under 3 in France.
I will always remember a slightly tipsy conversation I had with a farmer in the back of a liquor store I worked in the 90's.
I thought I heard it all until that day.
Also had other stories that were less lascivious. Some were about what families resort to in a society without mental health care. Relatives chained in the courtyard raving.
It sounds like they were still having sex, just not having enough babies to replace themselves, which could have been dealt with on its own in a very dry demographic way.
Bringing abortion, beastiality and sexual abstinence into it seems to muddy the waters for no clear benefit to the point that they were trying to make, which I think is, that if you have less than replacement rate babies, then your population will fall. But maybe that seemed a little too tautological without the extra details to distract the reader.
Also, the writers own story seems to suggest that these people (e.g. his great-grandmother) did have descendents (e.g. the author) it's just that they moved to the city, which I think was a big trend everywhere.
Apart from anything else, that goes back to at least biblical times (otherwise why would there be a rule about it in the Bible?)
I suspect that, given the author is talking about overcrowding and lack of privacy, they had enough people living under one roof for at least one of them to just… prefer that. (e.g. p=0.02, 50 people, or whatever).
I think there is a parallel to how the whole west currently is shaming itself into oblivion for the many alleged unforgivable -isms.
I was looking at the kind of off topic thread about how Mexicans shouldn't immigrate to Japan because they're genetically cursed to have unruly personalities…
https://jacobitemag.com/2017/06/20/modernitys-fertility-prob...
https://foreignpolicy.com/2009/10/20/the-return-of-patriarch...
The problem with the second article is the belief that conservative patriarchy was and is still the only way to sustain/grow population levels. This can problematic in an anthropological angle (there are still debates among anthropologists over how some prominent ancient societies were more matriarchial than we've realized), but more importantly I find this belief limiting our imagination as to the various ways in how humanity can manage to have and nurture kids. Familial values aren't only compatible with patriarchy, it can also mesh well with matriarchy (The fertility of women becoming important can also lead to women having more power over men, vice-versa). And is family the only way we can have childcare? Maybe we might have a society where everyone collectively cares each other's kids? What would happen if we have artificial wombs, wouldn't it significantly lower the barrier to having offspring? Obviously the hyper-individualism induced in our current configuration of capitalism is a huge cause for the fertility crisis, but I don't think old rehashed conservative values are the only solution for this individualism.
Now the first article (written by Nick Land), is much more nuanced, and doesn't strictly limit itself to patriarchy being an 'ultimate' evolutionary destiny. It's trying to dissecting the historical dynamics of population inside cities and between other cities (as a global phenomenon), and plotting the future trajectory of political theory from there. It states a fundamental problem of modernity which I can maybe agree with (although I have other problems with the author in general, mainly him also frequently spouting out right-wing reactionary politics)
the analysis from that thread which resonates best with me is the one quoting Elizabeth Warren and "The two income trap"
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15834496
housing prices, larger vehicle, or more vehicles, and other cost of living associated with more children are the private burden of the family. add to that the income loss of pregnancy and early motherhood and the cost of child care.
and it becomes easily obvious that a young family calculates twice before having another child.
and that's coming from a European country, where schooling is free.
is anybody aware of an opportunity cost calculation for raising 1, 2, 3, 4 kids? what is the TCO, the true full package material impact of raising children? ideally per country?
Then the richer you are, the more it is typical to spend on your kids. I live in an affluent area; my daughter just finished 6th grade and several of her friends are going to middle-schools with tuition in the low $30k range (yes, there is more than one in that price-range in town).
Programming could be nearly free (get a $200 computer of craigslist, add internet and electricity), soccer is relatively inexpensive.
IMO one of the major costs is because parents use their kids as conspicuous consumption symbols. "My kid does BJJ, equestrian, and snowboarding cause they're #blessed..." (cringe).
Personally, I'll be leveling with my kids, if they want something beyond the basics it's going to be up to them to find a way to pay for it. Soccer/basketball/swim lessons etc is in, super expensive clubs are out, and mom & dad's love for them is not a function of money spent.
1.) It made me way less likely to try any extracurricular because I knew I’d have to work to pay for them. This includes several that I was really interested in and showed aptitude for.
2. I had a job from age 12 on. I started with a paper route, then a dishwashing job, then a cashier at a mini mart. The result was that I was tired - the dishwashing and mini mart gigs kept me out until close to midnight several days per week. My grades, and my interest in school took a nosedive. My parents couldn’t figure out why. They thought it so impressive that I was so industrious to have these jobs. They loved the bootstrap narrative.
3. Working jobs in food service introduced me to all manner of drugs and alcohol. I was a regular smoker by 15, and binge drank with my coworkers from 16-19, and I smoked weed every chance I got.
I don’t really hold it against my parents consciously; they were older and really bought in to the bootstrap narrative. They genuinely thought I could work part time in the summer and pay for college, in the mid 2000s, just like my dad did in the 60s. But I do hold it against them subconsciously. I know there are things I really wanted to do back then that my family could hav afforded to pay for, and it’s a bitter pill to swallow knowing that they refused to out of misguided principles. I didn’t really realize that until I met my wife, who was told that it was her job to go to school and get good grades, not make money. Her parents didn’t spend lavishly on her, but if she could make a reasonable case for why she should have something they’d pay for it. When she told me that, it made my own parents way of dealing with these things really sting.
Anyway, thought that might be interesting to you as a parent.
And point number 3 is dead on.
This goes back to the point that it is important to be able and willing to work hard but working smarter is a better overall strategy.
I might agree a little with point 1, but I never felt penalizingly tired like you say in point 2, and I also never picked up smoking or boozing like you say in point 3.
Aside from that, having your kid work at least a little (even if they would only earn 20 bucks a week with a few hours on a Thursday evening) massively improves their respect for earning something, and actually managing money.
Do you think your drug use (+booze and cigarettes) became a considerable part of the costs that made you work so much?
I come from a lower middle class family in a non-urban area and there were neither the jobs nor the activities (much less costly ones) nor any sort of pressure to do such activities. Yet I believe I was fine, I am doing now (25ys later) several such activities
They asked him "pray mister Rosling, how do we increase the number of babies per woman?"
To which Rosling replied, in typical Nordic candor, "perhaps organise your society so that women do not feel like their life is over once they have kids?"
Looking at the history of contributions to science, software, and engineering by amateurs we probably lose out on a lot of productivity because of this.
[0] https://www.pop.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/birth-rate.pn... [1] https://www.smh.com.au/national/feminist-secretly-wrote-part... [2] https://www.jewishbookcouncil.org/book/no-steps-behind-beate...