Comment by towergratis | Hacker News Reader

Comment by towergratis | Hacker News Reader

From the article:

> Forget lasagna, pizza, spanakopita and lamb souvlaki -- they are not on the daily menu of those who live by the Mediterranean seaside.

> The true diet is simple, plant-based cooking, with the majority of each meal focused on fruits and vegetables, whole grains, beans and seeds, with a few nuts and a heavy emphasis on extra-virgin olive oil. Fats other than olive oil, such as butter, are consumed rarely, if at all. And say goodbye to refined sugar or flour.

> Meat can make a rare appearance, but usually only to flavor a dish. Instead, meals may include eggs, dairy and poultry, but in much smaller portions than in the traditional Western diet.

> However, fish, which are full of brain-boosting omega-3's, are a staple.

That's definitely not today's Mediterranean diet. Maybe it's what Mediterranean diet used to be 70 years ago, but as Mediterranean countries became richer, so did their diet.

Refined flour bread is present and consumed with almost every meal. Meat is very regular too. Foods like lentil soup and bean soup are eaten with lots of bread, cheese, and other side dishes that make it much less healthy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet

The Mediterranean diet is a diet inspired by the eating habits of Greece, Italy, and Spain in the 1960s.[1][2] The principal aspects of this diet include proportionally high consumption of olive oil, legumes, unrefined cereals, fruits,[3] and vegetables, moderate to high consumption of fish, moderate consumption of dairy products (mostly as cheese and yogurt), moderate wine consumption, and low consumption of non-fish meat products. Olive oil has been studied as a potential health factor for reducing all-cause mortality and the risk of chronic diseases.

> The Mediterranean diet is a diet inspired by the eating habits of Greece, Italy, and Spain in the 1960s.

Hmm.. that's what I said too, right?

It isn't a competition. Multiple smart angles on the same issue sharpens resolution for everyone.

Obviously I thought it was a rebuttal of my point, hence the question

Indeed. In email threads I will sometimes say “To amplify, …” to make it clear that I’m adding on, rather than rebutting.

That article description sounds closer to Joel Fuhrman's "nutritarian" diet.

Meat is not "very regular" in the modern mediterranean diet. This site ranks countries by meat consumption (overall and not per capita and given with reservations because I don't know where the data comes from, but still):

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/meat-cons...

Ranking of the three countries whose cuisines inspired the mediterranean diet, according to the site:

Italy 24

Spain 31

Greece 87

This ranking doesn't say anything about what kinds of meat are consumed and this is culturally determined also. For instance, counting per-capita consumption, Greeks, Spanish and Italians eat more pigmeat than other kinds of meat:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/per-capita-meat-consumpti...

And all three countries raise relatively few cattle (with Greece having less than a million):

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cattle-livestock-count-he...

I'm bringing this up because, to my knowledge, the traditional diet in Greece, while predominantly lacto- ovo- pescaterian also included cured pigmeats as a common food item, while lamb was eaten only rarely, at religious feasts (particularly Easter Sunday and the religious feast of a town's patron saint) and cattle were raised primarily for dairy. Similar in Italy and Spain.

So the "Mediterranean diet" as it is understood today is only "inspired" by the dietary habis of the traditional diets of Italians, Spanish and Greeks. In truth, these people traditionally consumed meat in larger quantities than assumed by the modern "Mediterranean diet". Accordingly, the amount of meat that modern Italians, Spanish and Greeks eat has not changed as much, from their historical past, than is suggested by comparison with the modern "Mediterranean diet".

That said, those three peoples are still far behind other developed countries in their consumption of meat today, especially beef and particularly so Greece.

You're right about refined flour. In Italy, Spain and Greece, bread is always on the table and it is mainly white bread. Pies like spanakopita and pasticcio are also today made mainly with refined flour. Sugar is also much more widely used today, as is salt, compared to the past, because of higher availability overall.

I guess "Meat can make a rare appearance" and "very regular" are subjective.

I grew up in a metro area, and can say that my family, relatives, and friends, have had some kind of meat (mainly chicken, beef and pork) at least 3-4 times a week for main course. And curated meat in sandwich snacks again another 3-4 times. I don't think there were many times I have gone more than 1 day without any kind of meat.

And of course as you mentioned every holiday/celebration must have some kind of meat, mostly goat.

And that's before you grow up and start eating out.

That's what I meant "very regular". Maybe by western standards it still isn't too much.

I recognise the pattern you describe, but for example that was how my two (first) cousins ate when we were young. One cousin in particular, I swear he only ever ate either steak or burger and fries. It was a family joke that his mom would try to sneak some greens to his burger (just parsley) and he would gingerly pick it out and leave it on the side of the plate.

On the other hand, that's not at all how my side of the family ate and it's not because anyone there is remotely vegetarian. I think my cousin was more influenced by his dad's way of eating and his dad was from a different part of the country than mine, where they have more animals and fewer vegetables.

That said, we did eat lots of cured meats at home. So much so that I'm laying off them now I'm a bit older, just in case.

Still I think it's like you say, the relative consumption is on the low side by western standards.

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