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Comment by FractalParadigm | Hacker News Reader

I came to this realization in university - I love software, I love writing programs and solving problems, but I really don't love office work or the idea of sitting at a desk all day. I dropped out of a software engineering program to work on a factory floor, a decision I haven't regret once in five years (even if my parents would consider me a failure). The hours are good, the wage is good, benefits are good, I get to come in stress-free and leave 8 hours later in the same cheery mood. I tried stints in "more successful" fields like in-house software or sales teams, but there was just something about it I loathed. To the outside world I'm just some deadbeat small-town factory worker, but I don't think I could make my life any happier or more enjoyable if I tried.

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My happiest period with relation to work was similar, laborious but satisfying because I got something done every day and didn't have to think about it after work. When you're writing software, it's hard to turn off the switch (I think especially if you find software development itself to be an interesting subject) when you leave the office. It's hard to not think about the design, the thing you'll do tomorrow, continue pondering that failed test case or new bug report into the evening. I only really got past that myself by introducing a significant break between work and the rest of my day with exercise in the 1-3 hours after work. But that's a rather high cost for anyone with a family.

Same here. I love software but also hate it. Too many decisions.

During lockdown I relish the opportunity to clean the house and cook because they are straightforward tasks where there are clear goals and I always achieve success.

Software for me these days involves too much despair and worry over whether things are done the right way.

You'll never find the right way. But there are lot's of ways that are good enough - you can learn to get satisfaction in a good enough solution and move on.

And if you got it wrong, and it wasn't good enough, you can take another stab at it later with the wisdom gained meanwhile.

Working for a big software company (thousands of software engineers under one roof) will make that off switch work again. You'll leave the office and instantly not care or think about anything you do until you cross the threshold the next morning.

This is the positive side (along with the salary) of being a tiny cog with no power to influence broader design decisions.

That’s hasn’t been my experience at all.

Worked at Microsoft and now I’m at one of the big AAA game companies (working on their online services side, not games directly) and both were/are very stressful. High expectations of commitment and personal investment in what I do.

A friend of my parents was a professor, lecturer and author in biology. One day, he was fed up and became a Tram Driver.

I'll never forget how he explained the bliss of coming home, dropping your company-bag in the hallway only to pick it up next day before going to work. How he never had to read up on recent insights in the field of driving a tram on weekends. How he was finding joy in reading biology-books in the evenings, free of any pressure, again.

(If this sounds denigrating to a tram driver, it is not meant as such, at all)

I wish I had made that decision when I could. I'm over 20 years into software development and every few years I try to get out of it, but most places won't hire someone with professional experience because they're scared you'll quit, and that problem just compounds itself over time. Instead I now work software for a few years on, then take a year off. During the working years life is a real stress, constantly thinking about work stuff, even on my off-hours. I can only dream of having a job that I could just switch off at the end of the day. Or - better yet - a guaranteed basic income so I didn't have to work doing something that exhausts me so thoroughly.

You still can! You just need to find someone willing to give you a shot. If you're financially able to, definitely tell them your story and offer to work at a reduced "probationary pay" for some months to show you're dead serious.

Have you tried moving into a related field, such as computer security (ie pentesting), network administration, etc?

I don't see a reason why any time is too late to get out. I was in software development and sysadmin field for about 15 years. Then started hand engraving (got quite good at it) and now I'm a full time CNC machine shop and growing steadily. Loving (almost) every day of it. Also went to college to study mechanical engineering. Of course being your own boss usually doesn't let you switch off at the end of the day, but that was just the choice I made for myself.

I believe I could get back to IT if I really wanted to, or needed to. Would need few months of getting up to date with all latest developments and living in the "land of the unicorns" I don't think getting well paying job would be a problem.

Any advice for making a transition like that?

How old were you when you went back to university? I’ve been wanting to do something like that but I feel like at 33 that’s too late.

Look for work in an industry with demand. In US that would be electricians and plumbers. If you take the time to get certified, no one will doubt your sincere interest. I don't think anyway.

You could always start your own business too.

Good to read this. I'm a software developer working on my own projects, and to still have some income in the first years I decided to work as a garbage man. It's so wonderful. Meeting different kinds of people all the time, doing physical work (more flirting with women during my workday haha), and when I get home I'm physically tired but mentally prepared to write another software module. Perfect fit, this mix of mentally/creative work and physical/'stupid' work. Indeed, for the outside world I'm also a deadbeat (although they never say out loud). But my real smile makes them doubt their selves, makes them even envious sometimes. Such is the power of making choices for yourself.

I can relate a little bit; early on I worked a job where I basically just wiped computers and confirmed they were working, then loaded them on pallets. It was purely physical work (lift a computer, take it to a desk, connect it, power it on, boot to a CD, confirm HD was wiping, go to one that had finished, pop out CD, shut down, disconnect, carry to pallet), in a hot warehouse, but the whole time I did it I felt good.

There is a huge satisfaction, or maybe even a need, to do something then feel the patent and "finished" result of our action.

In most occupations we are a cog in some huge machine working in a way forbidding us to enjoy this feeling.

It is not always possible, but as a senior software developer, I try to keep the feeling of 'finished' in my team. It is, by far, the most important piece in keeping a team happy, productive, cooperating and improving.

Definition of done, demo's, releaseparties, well-defined delivery requirements, chopping up tasks, user stories, etc. All help a lot here. But all require effort to maintain, establish and improve. Continously and significant effort.

The curse is that upper management perceives this effort but doesn't perceive its effect. Even from the common fundamental perspective (the enterprise has to optimize, to dissipate as few resources as possible in order to reach the more financially beneficial and durable state) this effort is justified, however as they don't know its real impact...

True. Though, if that management is measuring the right things, they will perceive it. But "the right things" is very broad and hard to define; and probably dynamic over the years event.

So I've actually never cared much for release parties. I think because by that point the work is 'done', and I'm ready to move on. Plus, if upper management is involved, it feels very parasitical ("let me attach myself to this launch"), and if they aren't it feels unnecessary (we know we did a good job). And the timing is always problematic; if it's literally as we release it feels disingenuous just knowing that if anything goes wrong the team has to step away from any sort of party (but not upper management, or others who glommed on), and if it's after the fact I've mentally moved on.

That said, all the other things are must haves, not just because of morale but because of effectiveness. Things don't get done without definitions of done, things don't get proper feedback and iteration without demos, etc.

From your story, you seem to have very different "release parties" than what I have encountered.

The ones I'm talking about are ranging from "buy some nice beers and munchies and drink one in the office" to "hire a boat, bring a radio" to "have dinner together". Basically a friendly, shoulderpatting event amongst peers.

*Edit: obviously all pre-covid lockdowns and work-from-home.

So that just sounds like a team event, which I try to do once a month just to help keep the team connected.

I think the difference is internal vs external release then. Our internal releases were generally "nice job" and the like, as we completed sprints. It was still a clear recognition of something being completed. The actual external facing launch that the company cared about, the 'go live', was more what I was referring to, and which never really meant much, to me at least.

I mostly work at desk. I feel really good whole day if I had sweat in the morning even while working with PHP (cycling for a couple of hours). I was wondering if sweating at the job has something to do with the satisfaction.

I respect your choice tremendously. On the other hand, on plan on retiring in 2-4 more years and devoting myself to dangerous and obviously excellent adventures which will likely have me dead by 50!

I'm rationalizing my decision to stick it out just a bit longer, but I have zero fucks left. I'd rather dig ditches than write software for one of the big companies at this point, but I'm not digging ditches.

That is a fantastic life as far as I’m concerned.

People use the same word "team" to describe both hypercompetitive groups of mutual enemies playing a zero sum game, and happy groups of cooperating people striving for a common goal.

Usually the first group is seen as more socially acceptable and usually makes more money, but the second group almost always has a superior quality of life.

Coworkers and the relationship with them matter. Its almost never talked about.

Wow, I didn't expect to find you on HN. What do you work on in the factory?

Heart warming story. MUch respect.

That is all good and well, but nowadays not everyone can get a decent factory job.

When I didn't have my CS degree finished and no IT experience, I've applied to thousands of factory and warehouse jobs and got nowhere. I only got a curier job through a family connection.

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