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Comment by titoCA321 | Hacker News Reader

Doesn't really matter, waiver or not. It's not like most industries or people can go about making this vaccines themselves. That's why I sometimes laugh about these folks that what to invalidate patents and have everything in the open. If Toyota posted schematics of their trucks online, do you think, you and I could build one without throwing resources, time, and money down a toilet? I would have better luck growing my own lettuce and raising my own cows to beat McDonald's at the hamburger game.

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Cool. So then these companies should have nothing to fear.

They rightly fear that in 2-3 years, when the pandemic is likely over everywhere and other people have figured out how to commercialize the IP, they won't be the only ones producing their vaccines.

This isn't going to help India or anyone in the short term and there'll be more than enough doses for every person on Earth by next year. Why should they not retain the IP rights to make a profit on new generations that need to be vaccinated or potential booster shots? The manufacturing capacity will have been built up so scarcity won't be a problem at that point.

Is it reasonable to believe that the knowledge that the USA doesn't intend to support the pursuit of damages for patent violation would have an impact on manufacturers now.

If you held a firm conviction that in the near future you'd be able to act on the IP without being in violation, would you be more motivate to progress toward doing so more swiftly?

As a patent holder, would you feel more secure that you could issue cease and desist notices and peruse damages after the waiver is lifted?

> This isn't going to help India or anyone in the short term

Why not? I’m not hearing a clear argument or evidence to support that withholding the patent recipe wouldn’t save millions of lives?

India now has a very high number of cases. As it stands now, your argument just sounds to me like:

“yes human lives, but... profit“.

Please could you elaborate on your argument and/or provide examples of what you’re describing happening in other cases?

Simple, the Indian vaccine factories already have licenses to produce these vaccines but are struggling to scale up production: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-55571793 (in part because they can't get some of the supplies needed, which maybe could be helped if the patents for those are also waived and other factories can help to make those...)

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/my...

This is about mRNA vaccines, but similar things exist for viral vector vaccines as well. Technology transfer, bioreactor bags, fill-finish capacity, all of these things are bottlenecked till next year basically.

But what if there is a factory that can spit out lots of effective vaccines if given the recipe? Shouldn’t we use every resource available?

There isn't.

If such a factory existed, it'd be making vaccines already.

It feels like the people saying that have a stake in the existing vaccine manufacturers.

There is a pharmaceutical industry in India that is not being given the opportunity to get in this fight and some people say they could help and others say they can’t.

So give them a chance and test if they can!

> It feels like the people saying that have a stake in the existing vaccine manufacturers.

Yes, the most likely reason why someone would have a different opinion is because they're somehow invested - emotionally, financially, whatever - in the existing vaccine manufacturers.

How much do you think this factory would charge for a vaccine? How much would it cost to standup a factory and if it was simple, why hasn't it been stood up already?

India is manufacturing AstraZeneca and other vaccines for export. Prior pandemic India manufactured 2.3 billion vaccines annually. Patent fees are big part of expenses.

RNA based experiments are doable in most university labs. It is 2021.

> RNA based experiments are doable in most university labs. This is 2021.

There is a huge difference between doing RNA experiments versus manufacturing millions of doses of mRNA vaccine without errors or contamination.

I know enough financially broke startups to confirm that a working prototype is only a small part of a successful business.

The approach to intellectual property in China is much more open, partly because the leaders understand that technical expertise is more than just a one-off design, and competitors probably can't enter the market without significant capital investment and risk. In the case of healthcare, I suspect that regulators will prevent any vaccines manufactured with sub-standard procedures, such as those made in university labs.

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