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Comment by pradn | Hacker News Reader

I'm unsure if the RTS genre is in a waning phase. AoE2 is still a top-20 game every day on Steam. Granted, it's a 20-year-old game. Maybe that shows new entrants can't make it; or maybe it shows there aren't enough good new entrants. StarCraft 2 is not as popular as it was, but would still be in the top 20 games if it were on Steam. We'll see if AoE4 gives the genre a kick. Initial reactions are somewhat lukewarm because of the art style, but the game play looks good.

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I recently started playing AoE2 again with my brothers after basically a 15 year gap, and it's a lot of fun. I was surprised to see such an active community. I've heard AoE4 will be more like AoE2 than AoE3 was, so I'm totally considering picking it up at some point if my brothers do. The game has aged really well with its design. We are all casual gamers, and it's nice to have something to play with people who aren't into the FPS twitch skills.

The game has seen a resurgence because of

1) the release of the HD and Definitive Editions of the game, with graphics and gameplay that still hold up

2) availability on popular game stores like Steam (though it's a Microsoft game)

3) continuous balance patches, content updates, and occasional DLC

4) talented Twitch streamers and YouTubers casting games, commentary, and analysis (See T90Official and Spirit of the Law)

5) an active, mature, and welcoming player base on Reddit, Twitch, Discord, etc

6) frequent and varied tournaments with increasing prize pools (the recent Hidden Cup had the highest prize pool for an AoE2 tournament in 20 years)

I feel like RTS would have a second awakening if they could de-emphasize the all-important actions-per-second somehow. It’s not appealing to new audiences because most people cannot execute multiple threads in their brains well. I think Factorio has some of this, where there is strong pressure to automate things that would otherwise demand your constant attention.

Wouldn't that get you turn-based strategy?

I suppose they mean in the commercial sense, new RTS games certainly don't drive industry leading sales for instance.

Certainly in the context of talking about a publisher like Blizzard nothing but raw profit is of any concern. Arty ambitions is the something for the game studios that appear and die off, not for the publisher that seeks to endure.

To me it just looks like they aren't trying very hard.

SC2 did something very smart with its last expansion with the coop mode, and it became very popular despite being only sort of fleshed out. I could easily see that kind of game mode making for a hit RTS if it was the central focus, and had the standard MMO-lite stuff like loot and missions and raids and story and customizable units/armies and support for other group sizes.

Immortal is being built with competitive 2v2 and 3v3 play specifically in mind in addition to 1v1 duels. It should be interesting to see how a pro-scene around that would play out. More combos, more team play, more personality clashes might all make for better eSports engagement. I'm sure PvE modes will be available too.

Yeah should be cool, I backed it for the alpha.

Nothing wrong with being a solid niche imo. Classical music will never sell as big as pop, but there will always be musicians and concerts keeping it alive on a smaller scale. No reason the same can't happen with RTS.

But the industry wants all the money, and right now.

They are focusing on games that can monetize user-base actively via micro-transactions and subscriptions RTS games are not really capable of this.

Last example i can think of is CoH 2, which was disappointing and the 'pay to win' commanders drove me away from it quickly. Plus i think original CoH is much superior game in terms of balance and fun.

Fighting Games have a smaller, but devoted niche that does well enough. The games are more expensive and they do seasonal or annual content pack releases that are also quite expensive, but the player base is devoted enough that they will pay. They make up for lack of volume with higher margins that their fans will support. I see no reason RTS can't go the same way.

As GP mentioned, AOE4 will be a good litmus test of the "commercial sense". Microsoft arguably squandered one of their most iconic franchises for the better part of 2 decades, and yet here we are (in large part thanks to strong sustained grassroots support from the community).

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