Hacker News Reader

Comment by aiisahik | Hacker News Reader

People who think this is predatory have clearly NOT worked in the TV / Film industry. Doing shit jobs for free in the hopes of getting some cred is the norm. Not right but not news.

BTW just because it's going to be on Netflix doesn't mean Netflix is the employer. Netflix just buys the content. The staffing / contract decisions are made by the production company.

View on HN

I don’t see how the fact that this behaviour has been normalized in a notoriously abusive industry makes it any less predatory...

I agree it’s not new but it can still be an important discussion. It shouldn’t continue to happen just because it has been happening.

It is abusive, but the flip side of that is that the barriers to entry are informal. If you can perform and you're willing to work, you can find a way in. If you're good, you'll get other jobs. If you're good and easy to work with, people will come looking for you.

It works like this sometimes, but people often look down on the fact that you gave away your work; if you're offering zero-cost, then you're probably zero-value, and undercutting someone else. True or not that's the impression given.

People tend to view someone with self respect more favorably, from what I've seen personally

True too. That's why it's a good idea to work free or cheap with peers, then charge a nominal fee, and work up.

Just because it's the norm doesn't mean it's not predatory.

Just because some people think it's fair and wouldn't accept it also doesn't mean it's wrong and should be stopped.

If someone makes you an offer and you say, "no" and they walk away, that isn't predatory.

It is if those are the only kinds of jobs available for people with lower levels of experience.

What about predatory lending? Are payday loans not predatory?

If you offer someone with the expectation they can't say no, that is in fact predatory. Many of these people have been loongg without work, I doubt they didn't expect people to bite thinking this is their big Hollywood break.

I can offer a bum $1000 to stab a guy for YouTube, but if he happens to say no and walks away, that's not predatory? I know it's a stretch, but that is the core argument you are making

> If you offer someone with the expectation they can't say no, that is in fact predatory.

In the absence of coercion or fraud, the offering party's expectations are irrelevant.

its absolutely relevant...intent is everything. I mean, we're talking the core definition of the word, 'Predatory', exploiting others.

Actually this isn't the norm. It happens often with tiny budget shows or college films, but not Netflix or real productions (netflix is footing the bill on this one) And it's still predatory.

And if the rest of the show is shot union, photographers are covered work, so union or nobody works.

Even if you're established in your career ... they'll ask you. As Harlan Ellison demonstrates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

Wow. That's one good speech from Harlan.

Netflix is certainly capable of mildly pressuring production companies to follow guidelines like paying their workers in order to get the contracts.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com