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Comment by akullpp | Hacker News Reader

FYI: Poetry (https://python-poetry.org) is actually close to something like npm.

So in my mind, the main things you would need to compete with npm would be:

1. near-universal adoption

2. "just works" experience: i.e. I can clone any random git repo, and run `npm start|build|whatever` and it's always going to work, without having to know anything about my environment or fiddling with configurations.

Does poetry do that?

You'll only really get 2 when 1 is fulfilled.

From my experience, with repos that have Poetry set up, I do get a "it just works" experience that I've previously been lacking when working with python. AFAIK there is no "scripts" section (for e.g. "poetry start" like "npm start") in the config file, or at least no one is using them. You'll have to take a quick peek into the README, but the same is true for npm projects, as the script verbs aren't really standardized.

> AFAIK there is no "scripts" section (for e.g. "poetry start" like "npm start") in the config file, or at least no one is using them.

There is a scripts section in pyproject.toml, which is leveraged by “poetry run”. This is different than for npm, though, since these aren’t dev-environment scripts but the executable scripts that are installed with the project

You can use a "scripts" section in pyproject.toml (it's what poetry reads, and increasingly more Python tools are leveraging it, which is good), but in general each repository/project offers what it wants to offer as commands, nothing in comparison with the "standards in use" for npm and similar. Personally I have used it to give easy access to the "main thing I want to execute" for my own weird projects.

I'm pretty happy using Poetry, and agree with your initial point, partially with the second. There can be some edges with packages involving "anything" binary (to be fair, that is to be expected), and a big issue (for me) is locking the resolution of some libraries, like boto (since botocloud has hundreds of patch releases and the resolver can get pretty crazy unless you play a bit of manual bisection). But this only hits you on poetry lock or poetry add when developing, and only in some cases, I think it's a fair price to pay for a reproducible build.

I usually put https://pypi.org/project/taskipy/ in my poetry dev dependencies to achieve this - then I can just run `poetry run task start`

Poetry wraps around pip, which does have a universal adoption. Which means you can use any package in pypi using poetry.

I don't recall it having custom commands but in my opinion this isn't the job of a package manager.

For the case of Python packages which are primarily exposing a command line script, alluded in the `start|build|whatever`, there is pipx https://github.com/pipxproject/pipx

In most npm projects, you don't depend on C extensions. For python projects that don't depend on C extensions, you already have your "just works" experience with poetry.

If you really want a "just works" experience when dealing with C extensions, you should freeze your development environment one layer up (e.g. VMs, vagrant images, what have you) so that you can always successfully install and compile your C extensions because the underlying system is also kept under version control. And this is independent of whether or not you are working on a Poetry or an NPM based project.

It's not that hard. I suspect that you're just used to simpler conditions.

1 - Nope

2 - Pretty much yeah

In my experience npm just works promise brakes as soon as the repo is 1 2 years old.

Except like pipenv it is dog slow and totally inscrutable when dependencies clash.

It seems a lot faster than pipenv. From the little I've tried, it seems a lot more sane - but I'm biased - I hated pipenv and never saw the point of it.

So have you considered the possibility that it may not be the fault of these package managers, but that there may be a different problem underneath it all that a package manager cannot fix for you?

It used to be incredibly slow but these days I find it's not so bad. It even has parallel pip installs now which while occasionally triggering some issues in projects with over complicated setup.pys is usually a lot faster than a good old pip install -r requirements.txt.

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