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I just don't think people value sexual compatibility enough.

If you aren't compatible sexually then you are not compatible.

I have been married twice. My first wife was practically my "soul mate", we had the same taste in everything. We were best buds, everything was perfect besides our sex life sucked. It always led to conflict and problems.

My wife now we have almost nothing in common when it comes to taste, art, music, hobbies, nothing. We have an amazing sex life though. I couldn't be happier.

That is not how it works in the movies. I am supposed to meet my first wife and live happily ever after. It is the difference between real life and fiction.

I think some imortant parameters are: age when you started and ended first marriage, age when you started second marriage, current age.

I suspect sexual compatibility lowers in importance as people age.

The most parameters are: who you are as a person and all that comes with that.

Saying that this matters less when that, or you'll loose interest in sex as you grow older simply won't fit for a lot of people. But for a lot maybe it will.

But since all of this is such a inherently personal thing, its opinion around the world will be as divided as our own butts.

I had thought similar for some years / decades.. the past few years my views on older people having sex / not / alot etc have changed quite a bit.

Certainly there are some old couples that stay together without good sex for different reasons, religios beliefs and such...

But if you are an intimate couple - that includes sex. If you are not having sex you are just roomates / friends - and there is nothing wrong with that.

I know a few different people in thier 70's right now having really great sex because they have found new partners, and because it's great they are having a lot of it.

So it could be less important if both people's only goals are stability or other goals - however we are seeing from reports in retirement communities and nursing homes that whether it is the loss of partner through death or divorce or just ageing single into a new community of options - that people are indeed searching for sexual compatibility as they age - often times with many more partners later in life than mid-life.

I just don't think people value sexual compatibility enough.

Agreed, but I think it's deeper: when I was in my 20's I didn't even know what sexual compatibility was. Given that, how could I even have made it a criteria for partner selection?

That assumes people figure out their sexuality. I've seen way too many people that didn't figure it out until their 50's. Like, "heterosexual until later in life" figure it out. And, there's an entire spectrum until that.

Not sure you ever figure it out, you just live it as you go along.

I agree. I think there's a long tail past a certain point, though. After a certain age, my preferences didn't really evolve much. Before that? Very rapidly, and much of it was just personal discovery.

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures.

I agree this is very Americanised, I can chime from two different perspectives and cultures: Brazil and Sweden.

Brazil is... Very Americanised, I believe that the same issues the USA has with sex are present in Brazil, it's expressed in some different ways but the underlying issues are more-or-less the same. Even though Brazil is seen through a very sexualised image from the outside, it's still a very conservative society where women are shamed for having sex.

Now for Sweden: I don't think anything you said really applies here, people are very open about sex, parents just consider it a natural thing and will allow their teenagers to have sex in their house, I heard stories from friends who had breakfast with the parents of a hook up after a night out, etc. There is very little taboo about sex here, even though not everyone is open to talk about it, the vast majority is completely fine with people having sex.

Which brings me to a point I don't really grasp how it happens, my sexual experiences here showed me that women suffer some similar issues as the women in Brazil: lots of them don't have good sex, not even with their partners, most of the times not due to a lack of communication but a lack of understanding from men. I've heard from girlfriends similar behaviour from men here as in Brazil, not the aggressive type but the lack of care about their needs, a lack of interest and curiosity in sex itself, to improve it, etc.

And then I don't know if this is something global and most men in the world are really that bad sex partners, it was really surprising to hear from Scandinavian women some of the same issues that girlfriends in Brazil went through. Not even counting the abuse, in Brazil it's much more extreme but I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.

I typically don't talk about it here, but I'd say I've been part of a pretty sexually liberated community (US based) for... about 15 years.

Because of our educational focus, we had a high number of new people come through, learn and mature, and then go off to do other things. So I'd like to think I learned something watching the common arcs.

In American culture, there are two big hangups about sex: (1) nobody is comfortable admitting ignorance & (2) the former leads to nobody being able to communicate about anything sexual.

Essentially every critical sexual conversation is some variant of this: "I'm not sure about X. How do you feel about X?" "I've never tried X. Do you want to try it?" "I'm nervous, but I do. How about if we Y'd and Z'd to start?" "I don't think I'd like Y. What if we Y_1'd and Z'd?" "I'm up for that!"

Notice the numerous admissions of ignorance. Because real conversations start in truth, without judgement. And it's worth it, because that's how you get to the fun times. Either in or out of a relationship.

(And ironically, you know who is typically comfortable admitting ignorance? Those with the most experience)

> I was surprised by how many of my girlfriends here had at least one instance of rape or sexual abuse, usually from partners.

Same here, absolutely appalling. Whenever I speak about it with guy friends they don't quite believe me and try to rationalise it (which is a common response for me on many topics as well), often by arguing semantics of what is considered rape or abuse etc, or the integrity of the person in question.

I'm not sure what prompts this skepticism exactly. The friends I've discussed this with who are skeptical, tend to otherwise be quite understanding and well thinking individuals. It's a bit akin to my own first reactions to allegations of Chinese genocide against Uyghurs, the concentration camps, etc. That can't be... There's probably some nuance I'm missing. I was only convinced after reading more and being exposed to more information and evidence.

It's very hard to have these conversations with some guy friends as none of my female friends have wanted me to share any part of their experiences with anyone else. That makes it really tricky to convince anyone else of the veracity of their claims. If I could, I could say 'well it's actually my partner, who I fully trust, or my mother who is completely honest, or our mutual best friend for the past 15 years', people whom my friends also hold in high regard and believe at face value, like I believe them.

I don't think I've ever asked a woman older than her mid-twenties about her experiences without hearing about an instance of assault. Some serious, some not, but universal.

Men on the other hand are generally taught by society that good sex is entirely their responsibility, and that if the woman does not get off, it is their fault.

This is one of the reasons why men are hesitant to talk about sex. It is easy to talk about it if you can say "No I didn't enjoy it and it isn't my fault." and less so if you have to introspect. Thoughts like, is my penis big enough? Am I not lasting long enough? Am I good-looking enough? and other thoughts come unbidden to the subconscious.

I don't know whether this is the case for everyone, but I've noticed that my wife's dissatisfaction tends to correlate very very strongly with periods where I'm completely exhausted.

I genuinely believe most men _want_ to satisfy their partners securely, in the same way that many working mothers _want_ to cook wholesome, healthy meals from scratch for their children, but after yet another stressful day we just don't have focus and energy required to show the love in that way.

I totally disagree with your view on Brazil, I have had lots of dates with many kinds of women and lived in Rio Comprido, and had a long term relationship and many friend in Brazil for a few year and I have found it is very acceptable to have had many partners for young women, and that "overly sexualized" image that is perceived from the outside is for the most part valid and people are much more open with their bodies, showing their bodies, and even hooking up with strangers. All you need to do is go to carnaval. Maybe some evangelical christians are like this but, even among them, I find many are sort of 'born again' after a fairly hedonistic lifestyle.

Well, I lived from when I was born up to my 27th birthday in Brazil. I went to school in Brazil, I dated a lot of Brazilian women, I have two sisters in Brazil.

I don't want to dispute your anecdote but I feel I have a bit more hands-on experience with Brazilian society.

Don't compare Carnaval, a one-off whole-nation party week to how society really works on the day-to-day.

Pornography from a young age might be warping their perception of sex and what it’s supposed to look like making them unable to please a woman who needs time to warm up instead of going from 0-100 like men are portrayed as doing.

> I am frequently surprised by the number of "dead bedrooms" I know about among friends

I originally thought they were mostly an old people thing, but I am hearing more stories about it from friends. And we are mid 20s.

Yep same here (mid 20s-30s). I guess it shouldn't really be too surprising; young people often don't know what they really need and/or are capable of providing before diving headlong into an exclusive relationship.

It was a trend that began in my mid 20s as well. I have also noticed women are more inclined to voice frustrations than my male friends. I guess I became more approachable after proposing to my now-wife (and the things I hear are G-rated compared to the things I hear secondhand from my wife)

One thing to note is that birth-control may decrease libido in some women. The science is a bit mixed though.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-sex/201902...

As for the male side of things, I'm not sure if there is a environmental culprit like birth-control.

Antidepressants and antianxiety medications decrease libido as well.

Depression and anxiety usually reduce libido.

Edit: Also an unhappy relationship often can lead to poor sex, depression, and anxiety.

Sounds like we need to address depression and anxiety with something other than drugs.

Shorter work weeks, universal healthcare, affordable housing, open borders, freedom to travel, less consumerism, more time for friends/family...

I thought countries that have most of those things seem to have as many problems with depression and anxiety?

And countries without those things perhaps don't?

Which are the correlations that actually matter?

nah... go look up quality of life ratings and you can see these countries do great.

I'm pretty sure that universal healthcare isn't compatible with open borders. Budgets aren't infinite.

Why do people assume open borders means freeloaders vs freedom?

As long as your country is offering something that 90% of Earth’s population lacks (access to high-quality free healthcare which is what people usually mean as “universal”) then, yes, you’re going to attract a lot of freeloaders.

No, no you won't. You will attract people who are committed to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I wish I could believe this. Seems more like wishful thinking along the lines of America’s hubris that it could “bring democracy” to the Middle East.

There’s nothing magic about soil. You need to give time for waves of immigrants to integrate, or it leads to backlash and horrible people like Trump getting elected.

> open borders

No thanks. Feel free to go conduct extreme social experiments with your own life, not mine.

I wouldn’t call it extreme, as it has been done before. In the US, for example, borders were completely open for the first hundred years until anti-Chinese racism led to the passage of the Page Act in 1875.

Open borders = unaffordable housing, no universal borders, less time for friends and family

What does open borders have to do with the other things?

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things does not belong

Or maybe drugs that lead to insight instead of away from it.

Also, you need to address birth control with something other than drugs.

Lack of sex causes depression and anxiety. It's a vicious circle.

Depression and anxiety even more so, modern work-life balance and social media too...

Exposure to phthalates reduces testosterone in both men and women, and thus lowers sex drive. Phthalates are widely used chemicals, primarily for softening plastic.

https://news.umich.edu/reduced-testosterone-tied-to-chemical...

That's not the only cause. Increased obesity levels also play a role. Probably other factors.

Widely and freely available HD porn too. It’s easier than ever for people to use it as a substitute, and it reduces the drive to seduce. It contributes to a downward spiral of satisficing.

Edit: Getting downvotes from folks in denial. I’m not making this stuff up, college students rarely used to have ED, now porn-induced ED is quite common. Many such cases! [0]

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5039517/

I thought porn was supposed to make people into sexual deviants, which is it?

It reduces the novelty of real sex and thus the arousal for it. Lots of studies on this.

A common side effect of porn addiction is that the addict requires more and more extreme situations and stimulus in order to get aroused. So I would say that is sort of turning one into a sexual deviant.

Would love to see any sort of actual studies on this, because I'm fairly confident it's false.

The argument at face value is a slippery slope, like "sugar triggers dopamine response in the brain in similar areas as cocaine, so any exposure to sugar eventually leads to someone consuming sugar at all times"

I think it's much more likely that people, in general, imprint sexual preferences around the time that they are becoming sexual in their teens, and that doesn't change much as they age.

Religion in the US tends to focus on "any exposure to porn makes you an addict," which is why I am assuming this is what you're trying to imply. If you want to play a semantics game "porn addiction is defined as" then I'd argue that the same people are -true- porn addicts at the same rate that people are -true- sugar addicts. So, not saying they don't exist, but are a significantly lower number of the population than US religions would have you believe.

Your opinion seems to come from the same school of thought that claimed cannabis consumption would surely lead to harder and harder drugs.

In fact, I have experienced the opposite: I do not enjoy any kind of "ugly", much less "extreme" porn. It turns me off.

The simplest kind for me, missionary position, or a girl alone, and that's it.

I have a dead post in this thread for basically the same thing, very odd reaction I don't understand.

From review you linked. Clearly this means research is conflicted on this topic.

Viewing Sexual Stimuli Associated with Greater Sexual Responsiveness, Not Erectile Dysfunction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26185674

Is Pornography Use Associated with Sexual Difficulties and Dysfunctions among Younger Heterosexual Men https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25816904/

> it reduces the drive to seduce

Are you suggesting that the solution to dead bedrooms is increasing "drive to seduce" of the ones who complain?

I thought that many of them already have high drive that their partners don't reciprocate.

Stress is higher across the board as the middle class is wrung out of the economy and the gilded age begins again.

Even if it isn't fight-or-flight stress inducement, sheer business and exhaustion are also undeniably up.

All one has to do is look at the laundry list of economic differences (housing, health care, education, salary, etc) between the current generations and the boomers.

> I think this is a very Americanized perspective, though, so I would be especially interested in hearing perspectives from other cultures.

From my understanding, in Islam, sex is a normal, expected part of marriage. If one partner doesn't want to have sex, it doesn't give the other partner the right to demand it. Rather, if there is a lack of desire for sex, it is grounds for divorce.

Understanding of the original intent? Is this a thing in actual marriages of Muslims? I’ve never heard of any of this as a thing that is common knowledge. I could be out of the bubble though.

It was the same with the puritans. You had to produce children somehow.

I used to think this (Americans don't have sex because they're shy about it) but the data says the opposite.

I'm curious about what data suggests this, since getting honest answers about sexual activity from the public is a famously difficult challenge.

As an entertaining example, Seth Stephens-Davidowitz's big data book Everybody Lies mentioned a study that asked people in the United States how frequently they had sex, and how frequently they practiced safe sex with a condom. If the resulting data was accurate and projected across the entire country, the United States consume 2.7 billion condoms a year... even though only 600 million condoms are sold in a year.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/our-searc...

That seems like it could be an interpretation problem where the definition of sex changes to only include penetrative sex in the context of the safe sex question.

My hypothesis is that Americans are both hypersexual (due to media, porn abuse, etc) and thus deprived of good sex as a result of the over stimulation toward faked, idealized, porn-ified sex. I have no evidence for this, it is merely a hunch and seems to align with what I have heard from people who have moved here from other countries. My parents themselves were immigrants and were shocked at the hypersexuality when they moved here. Simultaneously to that, they were shocked you couldn't even see a boob on TV. The natural human body itself was censored but gigantic fake boobs and butts were plastered all over MTV and VH1, albeit clothed. They'd also never heard of the over emphasis and anxiety over penis size until they came here.

Cultural views on plastic surgery are critical here. I see a clear contrast between underlying beauty standard assumptions, like “you should look natural” vs “you should look like a sex machine”. both allow for a certain amount of body modification but one of them pushes for a transformation to bodily extremes. With the elevation of hip-hop culture and Kardashian-style ‘upgrades’ i think the US and canada are heading towards a culture where perfectly attractive people get tons of surgery, i think driven by anxious status seeking.

I'll go on a limb assuming you don't have children yet.

I don't. But neither do those friends who speak about sexual incompatibility with the people that they love. Children are a completely new factor that this thread hasn't introduced, and I'm impressed by anyone who can make it work with a toddler. But for the most part, the demographic I'm talking about have no kids, live together, are financially comfortable, enjoy spending time together... and yet don't want to do it for some reason.