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Comment by the_jeremy | Hacker News Reader

> having a romantic ... relationship is not a requirement for a happy life

Do you think having friends is a requirement for a happy life? It's not strictly necessary, but they are a positive factor, and most people will not be happy entirely devoid of friendship.

Having a partner is a friend you commit to and are closer with than other friends (generalization, sure). I have friends who I would not support through depression, but I would support my partner through depression. Needing someone like that is not unhealthy. It will be difficult to find someone willing to give the same commitment to your friendship as to their partner (generalization again).

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> I have friends who I would not support through depression

they aren't your friends then. aquaintences perhaps but not real friends. I'd jump through fire for my friends and know they would do (and have done) for me. but then I also run a tight ship with what I consider a friend. if we haven't gone through some kind of shared struggle together we can never be friends. that's why most men will have trouble making real bonds once they leave their teenage years and early 20ies behind. not much new happens (such as puberty) that you struggle through as a group. try to make friends in your 40ies that are as strong as your oldest friendships and it'll be pretty much futile to get anywhere. it's even worse: trusting somebody at that age to become a close friend is a natural red flag for most men. the smell of danger is too high. you're meant to stand on your own feet with that age and better be used to (or even enjoy) being alone (if you don't have a partner)

Sure. At that point, this is just a semantic difference in acquaintance / friend / close friend / best friend. I would argue that there are many people who have zero friends by your definition.

I have friends (by my definition) who I'd, say, drive 30 min out of my way to pick them up if they got car trouble, but I wouldn't lend them $10,000. These are people I see regularly and actively make time to hang out with. I feel like most people would lean toward my definition over yours, but I could be wrong.

my old roomate wouldn't even lend me $200 one night, but he was more than willing to basically chauffer me around for a week when my car was in the shop. This included taking me to work 20 minutes north every day. Despite that, he wouldn't take the $50 I offered for gas. Definitely still consider him a friend.

This doesn't mean anything at all to this thread, but your comment reminded me of that. it still bugs me a tiny bit, even if I completely understand and don't blame him for it. I know some people are just extremely picky about money.

Why would you not support your friends through depression?

Because supporting depressed people is depressing and often futile. Mental illnesses can be transmissible that way.

Also, supporting a depressed person needs lots of time and effort, and while they are depressed they give nothing back except bad vibes.

I'm very glad we're not friends.

edit: I just found this meme: https://i.imgur.com/WCzNW77.png and I decided to link it here. People think friendship is something that is built over years because it takes years in order to have finally made it through enough hardship and shared struggle so calling each other friends is justified. This is the literal meaning of having a friend. You know they'll help you even you got nothing to give and without expecting anything in return from them.

> You know they'll help you even you got nothing to give and without expecting anything in return from them.

I cannot decide if that is more abusive or more romanticized.

If you expect your friends to be there for you without you returning anything, you are abusing them. That isn't friendship, that is exploitation.

And if your friend is there for you even though you are incapable of returning anything, it is incredibly romantic. But also usually very limited, because that drain on your friend has consequences and needs to either be equalized by something (not you) or suck your friend dry until he himself is incapable. Which is a very un-romantic ending, because it leaves the world with 2 emotional cripples.

For me, friendship is also very much about knowing the limits of what i should make my friends suffer through.

life is swings and roundabouts. having nothing to give in return isn't romantic - it's humbling. it's depressing and devastating the one who has no choice but to accept and I'd rather they get out of their dump than thinking about my expectations. it's more important that they're OK to me than if they give back (which I trust will anyway happen because "swings & roundabouts").

I understand most people are more calculating. My own family who would keep tabs of what they give and receive so to never feeling they're in somebody#s debt. I'm like that in business situations, and to those who I know would do it to me, but not to those who are close enough to consider friend.

> for me, friendship is also very much about knowing the limits of what i should make my friends suffer through.

yes, this very much!

You're making assumptions that you won't find yourself in the same state one day where you require the selfless help of others.

No, I'm not. While I would appreciate help in such a situation, I can fully understand anyone walking away. Being a bother to people and needy is one of the worst parts of being ill.

Thinking your depressed friend is a bother to yourself has told me that I'm very blessed you and I are not friends.

If you have a treatable form of depression, go get treated. If you have a personality disorder, the person you're responding to is the lucky one, not you.

> Mental illnesses can be transmissible that way.

The medical term for what you are talking about is compassion fatigue. It's symptoms look a lot like depression: "People who experience compassion fatigue may exhibit a variety of symptoms including lowered concentration, numbness or feelings of helplessness, irritability, lack of self-satisfaction, withdrawal, aches and pains, or work absenteeism."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion_fatigue

Because they're self centered and only want friends when it's convenient for them.

It's important for you to understand the difference between actual clinical depression, which is fully treatable with medication, and depression as a symptom of personality disorders, which is not.

I don't know if you have ever dealt with the latter, or if perhaps you are part of that group, but encountering someone who is can be enough to turn you away from ever potentially being involved with anyone displaying depressive symptoms. There's just too much risk to one's personal life and well-being if they end up being the "bad" kind of depressed person, and not the "good" kind.

It is one thing to nominally 'support' friends through depression and another help them see it through to an under-defined end.

Supporting a depressed person will inevitably take a huge toll on your own mental health. That's aside from the time and physical effort it would take up. I am assuming that the friend has some understanding of depression to begin with, which from my personal experience is rarely the case.

I have supported a couple of friends through depression, and it is exhausting. In most cases I was only around them for weeks, and it drained happiness from my life. At time I felt like cutting contact, because depressed people are insufferable. The only reason I stayed to help was because I had personally gone through a similar situation recently, and didn't want to wish it on my worst enemy, let alone a friend.

It's like having a special needs child or being the carer for dependent parent. It is easy to say that you'd gladly do it, but the sad reality is you'll find yourself wishing for a better situation (with all the guilt in the world) once you are knee deep in it.

In a "comment a positive message on your facebook status" way? Sure, I'd do that. In a real, be-there-no-matter-what, show up consistently for them even when they're a drain and show no signs of improving for months on end? Some I would, some not.

Really, though, friendship isn't a commitment. I am friends with people I enjoy spending time with. I have plenty of people I am no longer friends with because we stopped having things in common or geography got in the way. That's not a failure on them or me as people. I've made new friends and so have they.

I don't feel bad about saying no to things I don't want to do. I don't want to spend time with someone who isn't fun to be around. With some close friends, I will, out of some sense of obligation or caring about that person. With most friends, I don't feel responsibility over their emotional state, and would rather support my own.

I would argue any "friends" you have that you wouldn't be there for when its not convenient or "fun" for you to be around are not real genuine friends. I cannot imagine a single one of the people I actually consider my friends being unwilling to be there for me if I was going through a depressive spiral and I can't imagine me not being there for them if they were. Friendships are a form of relationships and that means being together through thick and thin, when its easy and when its hard. If you are unwilling to be there for your "friends" when its hard only when it's "fun" then you are not friends as far as I am concerned, you are acquaintances.

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