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Comment by throwawayosiu1 | Hacker News Reader

I'm at the marriage age right now and I see tons of my friends getting married.

A friend got proposed a couple of months ago and her ring is ~40k USD. In my opinion, that's crazy since they're spending ~30k CAD on their wedding.

My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her. Furthermore, a significant group of middle/upper-middle class want naturally occurring diamonds (because they're "real") over lab produced ones (not because of the quality, but because of the tag associated with and the societal group pressure). Furthermore, the same group also hate moissanite because it's not diamond.

It's irrational, marketing and conditioning all they way down.

Hopefully, stuff like this forces lab grown diamonds to the mainstream culture so that we can finally get rid of that mentality.

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> My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her.

I don't really understand situations where peoples' partners say things like this and it comes as a surprise. This feels like an extremely aggressive statement on how they view your relationship, and the level of trust and mutual understanding you have.

I just can't imagine getting to the point of considering marrying someone and not knowing well in advance that they will hold an opinion like this. And if they seemed like the kind of person who would have this opinion... I probably wouldn't be staying with them, because it seems like it would flag a variety of other uncomfortable personality traits.

How did you react? Was it a surprise to hear this?

Social signaling and innate competitiveness is a hell of a drug. A former all-Linux employer had standardized on issuing Dell laptops, and everything was fine. Until some joiner in middle/lower management petitioned for a Macbook Pro and got it, and a couple more popped up in the Excel-jockey stratum, and the floodgates were opened. PMs and team leads all started to report all sorts of "problems" with their old laptops (too slow, gets too hot) to motivate for replacements - thought they had to run Linux VMs to get any work done. The Dell/Apple laptops weren't just tools anymore - they were now a social signal/status symbol to say "I am an important person" in every meeting room. It was fascinating to observe, because getting a Macbook made their lives worse (having to develop in a VM with slow disk I/O - this was before docker took over the world). Computers became the visible representation of your place on the totem pole; the same thing happens with engagement rings within social circles when going for drinks/brunch. You don't want to be caught dead with the Dell of engagement rings in a room full of Macs.

> I probably wouldn't be staying with them, because it seems like it would flag a variety of other uncomfortable personality traits.

I wouldn't go that far - we all have hobbies/interests we are passionate about that we're not utilitarian about and are willing to go all-out on. Judging a person on one axis feels like a mistake to me.

Cocaine is also a drug, and yet, one doesn't need to date someone addicted to either.

> I wouldn't go that far - we all have hobbies/interests we are passionate about that we're not utilitarian about and are willing to go all-out on. Judging a person on one axis feels like a mistake to me.

I don't this is a hobby so much as a world view, or as you stated, an addiction. To me it indicates a very materialistic, shallow worldview. If 40k rings are required to show love, what do they think of people who aren't as wealthy? What would they think of you if you lost your job? Heck if someone's marrying you, why do you need to show your love at all, shouldn't that be established to them?

I think you should be incredibly judgy about who you choose to marry.

> To me it indicates a very materialistic, shallow worldview. If 40k rings are required to show love, what do they think of people who aren't as wealthy?

Or - hear me out - the partner was embarrassed to verbalize that she's competing with the friend's engagement ring, and therefore created a less embarrassing, post-hoc rationalization as to why she wants a $40k ring too. Here's a thought experiment - had the friend gotten a $6k ring, would she have asked for a ring closer to $6k or still gone with $40k, by some intuition?

> Heck if someone's marrying you, why do you need to show your love at all, shouldn't that be established to them?

Unfortunately, no (on both sides: some people marry for the wrong reasons, and it's not close to showing your love - which shouldn't be an event)

> I think you should be incredibly judgy about who you choose to marry.

Absolutely.

> Or - hear me out - the partner was embarrassed to verbalize that she's competing with the friend's engagement ring, and therefore created a less embarrassing, post-hoc rationalization as to why she wants a $40k ring too. Here's a thought experiment - had the friend gotten a $6k ring, would she have asked for a ring closer to $6k or still gone with $40k, by some intuition?

Marginally better, but still greatly concerning that the person you're supposed to trust most is too embarrassed to communicate openly imo.

Do an experiment - ask your partner if she wouldn't marry you if you don't give her precious stone. If she won't, I can't see how such a relationship is based on love, rather than various calculations. The idea that money express love is plain stupid from any point of view I can imagine.

One big warning sign right there.

FYI I didn't give my wife any diamond, in fact when I proposed to her on top of Mont Blanc after grueling dangerous skitour I didn't even have a ring since she never wore any before, so I couldn't get correct size.

It didn't matter a bit and still doesn't - everybody we talked about considers my proposal way cooler than usual big money being thrown around. I bought her a ring of her choice afterwards (cheap stuff), and no surprise - she lost it / got stolen when working at tomography lab few months afterwards. Not a problem, imagine losing a ring worth 40k (upon sale, resale maybe 50% of it if lucky).

Some people have just been conditioned, by friends/family/marketing, that 'if he doesn't buy you a diamond, he doesn't love you'. There is _some_ logical thought to it. Putting money down on a marriage can be seen as a sign of commitment, and that's the way it's usually portrayed. If he won't spend money on the symbol of your marriage, then he hasn't committed.

I, personally, decided I would not marry someone who thought this way. I know it is a weird hill to die on, but if someone won't change their mind even after seeing all of the pertinent information about the diamond mining industry and the marketing, then that is not the type of person I want to marry. I luckily found an amazing woman who thinks the same way I do.

> My partner also mentioned that she'd like a wedding ring of the same calibre since according to her - diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her.

Do not marry this person. At the very least, they're bad with money (presuming you/they are not a multimillionaire presently where $40k is just pocket money).

Wow, you might want to talk with your partner about buying a ~40k ring. That seems like it could be a big sticking point in a marriage, especially considering it could pay for an entire university degree.

And it's probably not going to be a one-off thing...

> diamond ring is how much love / value / worth I hold for her

Wow.. I find it hard to believe how someone can say/repeat such a statement about the size and authenticity of a shiny rock to equal the love you have for the person. It sounds so materialistic - but, I can't blame her either, it's part of the value system of the surrounding society she grew up in. It's impressive how effective the diamond industry's marketing has been over the last century or so.

Don't want to get too personal but why not date in a different circle?

Almost no matter how financially well off you are, why have $40K on your finger. Not worth the danger (unless maybe you are $100m+, have 24/7 security, rich).

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