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I'm not hatin', but spend some time on r/mechanicalkeyboards and you'll quickly realize it's just a fun hobby that's 90% about aesthetics. For example, most users ignore backlighting because it limits the cute keycap sets they can use.

Yup, I've got no problem with hobbies. I have a friend who keeps a closet full of sneakers he'll never wear, and quite often I'll go days without calling him a weirdo ;-)

It just gets weird when people start into these audiophile-like arguments for the superiority of their choice. I've owned a number of mechanical and membrane keyboards since my first computer in 1983, and there's no real benefit to either except for aesthetics and how it feels to you personally.

I totally agree. Membrane keyboards are 100% fine. In fact, back in the 90s I was a bit turned off by the cacophonous IBM keyboards and considered the shift toward rubber domes as a luxury. We've come full circle.

> most users ignore backlighting because it limits the cute keycap sets they can use

What's the advantage of backlighting? I don't need to look at my keyboard to type.

To type, sure. But what if you want to press a more obscure button like F7 or Print Screen? Also helps for games where your fingers aren't always in the standard ASDF position and you're still learning the keybindings.

I have a number of the Cherry MX Board 1.0 TKL that has a backlight, I use them on keyboards for computers at theatrical (stage) shows. No need to turn on a light that may get noticed by the audience to see where the keyboard is or to find your place on it.

And some people do not 100% touch type, or don't touch type in the strict way everyone expects all touch typists to do so.

If you've memorized `~!@#$%^&*()-_=+[{]}\|;:'",<.>/? then yeah, you don't need a backlight. I've memorized some, but certainly not all.

i have a moonlander keyboard that’s programmable. certain keys can trigger layer shifts, and backlighting helps me know which layer i’m on.

I'm pretty confused about your comment and all the replies. Do you all not have lights? I can see my keyboard just fine without backlighting. Not wanting backlighting has nothing to do with whether I need to look at my keyboard or not. I just think it's ugly (which is just a preference, totally fine for people to like it).

Yes, controlling your lighting situation is certainly a good solution. For me, even though I don't compute in the dark I do keep the ambient light pretty dim. I get sick of squinting at the keys.

I'm sure a lot of this is out there, especially for young keyboard users. I'm middle age and I learned in grad school that a good mechanical keyboard could save my fingers. I personally went from finger pain to no finger pain, and have been good since. YMMV of course

Imagine what kind of person regularly posts on a subreddit about a physical tool that doesn't require much maintanence. Of course it's going to be the people that take it up as a personal hobby that are going to post - that isn't going to give you a representative sample of the average users. I've been using a mechanical keyboard for years now, and I've visited the sub maybe half a dozen times, and yet I enjoy the feel of my keyboards and they'll continue to make a small but significant improvement to my interactions with computers.

If you are a cook, spending a ton of money on a knife that cuts well, is balanced and — most importantly — you like to use is totally common and normal. A cheap kitchen knife from ikea probably would also work for them — but this is what they interact with, so spending money there is totally reasonable.

People on this site probably interact with computers much more than the average person, and many type stuff into their machines for the majority of their days. I don't see why it wouldn't make sense to get yourself something decent that feels good to interact with there.

Tiny annoyances multiplied by a hundred times a day, 365 days a year add up. And even if it is only that slightly mushy Ctrl key or that spacebar where the right stabilizer is weird because the thing fell off the desk once.

For me a mechanical keyboard must be sturdy, heavy, with no flex of any kind. Preferable with black linear/silent switches, something that you can punch in hard or type completely silent if needed. Not a piece of plastic that moves around on the desk.

Maybe the fact that I am playing musical instruments (and work in audio) plays a role here. Tactile feedback is very important to me. I don't need a click, just very predictable and reliable responses that don't distract me when I am in the flow. I need a keyboard that can be silent if I need it to be silent.

That alone (for me) justifies spending more money than usual people would spend on a keyboard. It is not hobby to me, it is a tool. But a tool I enjoy using and that works for my use case. Sure I could use any other keyboard. But I don't have to, so why would I?

I agree with nearly all of the points you made, and I am a similar linear switch user. It is a sturdy, reliable input device. But even though I'm not a chef, I still cook for myself and I want sturdy, reliable tools there as well. Maybe I don't need the largest array of knives, but the ones i choose should make my life easier, not possibly have the knife equivalent of a squishy membrane key.

> Tiny annoyances multiplied by a hundred times a day, 365 days a year add up.

A year ago I lost a lot of free time and realized how much crap I was unnecessarily putting up with. I've started trying to upgrade the tools that give me the most friction, and many times it's been surprisingly inexpensive for the benefit gained. I bought one decent keyboard and mouse that can switch between multiple devices, replaced my terrible second monitor with one that has better viewing angles, and took in my kitchen knives to have them sharpened. There are (obviously) still many annoyances during the course of a day, but there's just a little less overhead involved in getting work done.

> In theory, a mechanical keyboard can last for 3 to 5 years.

3 to 5 years! I expect all of my mechs to last a lifetime. My daily driver is cherry mx blues that have been clicking away for 11 years now, 6-10 hours of software engineering a day.

That calculation does not seem very realistic. I'd expect a mech keyboard to continue to function after 50 years of daily use, and a traditional membrane to probably wear out somewhere between 10 - 15 years of daily use.

Yep, if you get a nice one then it should last quite a while. Problem is when you want to buy another one for work or something and they no longer sell them :/

I have been using a Tex Beetle TKL Mechanical Keyboard for about 10 years and they no longer sell it which is a huge bummer. I'm sure if it breaks I'll be OK with another TLK keyboard out there on the market but I do love this one.

I've had multiple Kinesis die on me sadly.

It depends on your usage.

I've gone through four or five Apple Keyboard (A1243) during the past decade. They break very easily, but I like the feel and layout.

With mechanical keyboards made for gaming (Razer and Corsair) I've had the caps start to fall apart and break after ~2 years of regular usage. The most frequently used switches also tend to start showing signs of wear and tear after a while.

>With mechanical keyboards made for gaming (Razer and Corsair) I've had the caps start to fall apart and break after ~2 years of regular usage. The most frequently used switches also tend to start showing signs of wear and tear after a while.

That's why a lot of people into this hobby get pcb's where they don't have to solder in the switches and if ever a switch breaks they just pop in a replacement or pull the switch apart to see what's wrong. Similarly if a keycap `falls apart and breaks` although i don't quite know how this managed to happen for you

> Wrist rests are actually one of the leading causes of RSI due to the extra compression stress they place upon the carpal tunnel.

Can you speak more to this? I bought a ZSA Moonlander[0], which has built in (tho removable) wrist rests. I bought the keyboard specifically for ergonomics, mechanical keyboard "coolness" was far down the list.

I used to get wrist pain typing directly on my MBP, with my laptop on my lap (shitty setup due to COVID, am fixing now). I would be resting my wrist right on the hard edge of the MBP. Since getting the moonlander, I've had no wrist pains.

[0] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander

The ideal if you need to type a lot is to leave your palms and wrists "floating" in the air while actively typing, and position your torso and keyboard such that you can type with your hands close enough to your body that they can be supported without much effort by your arms and shoulders, perhaps lightly resting your finger tips on the keys. Resting your palms on a palmrest while not actively typing is fine.

You’ll get wrist pain primarily from wrists not being straight (either flexed downward or extended upward). Keeping your wrists close to straight is important when doing any kind of repetitive action with the fingers.

I usually do this "floating" thing, especially since I mostly use my index and middle fingers, so I have to move the hands around to reach the keys.

But I've found that for some use cases, when I always press the same keys (say moving around text with hjkl, or similar) it's very comfortable to rest the wrist on the wrist-rest. However, I usually put most of the wrist's weight on the exterior, so I suppose the nerves aren't as much constrained.

I think it's a matter of keeping the hands aligned with forearm and not having pressure on the write joints themselves. I try to keep the palms of my hand (the same part you hit with in martial arts) on the "wrist rests" instead, and I've had zero issues for years. For me, the biggest problems I had came from using various mice and never finding a good one until I moved to a MacBook and learned the trackpad. Now I've literally adhered a magic trackpad 2 to the middle of a Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard and I love it. It translates back and forth between using the laptop and a "docked" setup better than anything else I've tried over the years.

The kinesis advantage (now Advantage2 LF) has been my mainstay keyboard over the last 20 years, both professionally and personally. I too adhered a trackpad, although mine is an Ergo Mini touchpad: https://ergonomictouchpad.com/ergonomic_touchpad.php

I immediately bypassed the aesthetics side of MK and went straight to functionality; the kinesis has probably been the most reliable piece of hardware I've had over the years (with the exception of a key-repeating known issue that has been resolved with the advantage2)

That kind of RSI is caused by repeated rubbing along the carpal tunnel in your wrists. The more friction there is, the quicker it happens, so the idea is to keep your wrists as free from all forms of compression/pronation as possible so that the tendons glide as effortlessly as they can. Resting your wrists on something, having your wrists bent at bad angles, etc increase the compression and thus friction. Piano and guitar players with poor posture also suffer similar injuries for the same reason.

Other than that it's about recognizing the signs that your wrists are getting raw from too much use and taking breaks.

There's more than one type of RSI, carpal tunnel is only one particular injury.

I've had severe typing RSI and had to go to the doctor for it.. mine was tendonitis in the flexor muscles.

They looked at the X-Rays and MRIs of my wrists and said there was no way I would ever have to worry about carpal tunnel, different people have differences in the bones and can have a tighter tunnel.. a tighter tunnel can make that type of issue more likely to occur.

Learn to type by floating your hands like a pianist. It’s the main thing that saved my wrists 10 years ago when I started developing first hints of issues after 15 years of daily coding.

Retiring at 23 because of wrist pain wouldve sucked.

Typing on yor lap is generally bad for all sorts of reasons. I’ve found it can work if you’re reclining in a comfy chair. But float your wrists!

Great tip and way of phrasing it. This is basically what I do, except I cheat a bit by resting my elbows on my arm rest. My wrists hover, or gently graze the wrist rest, but most the pressure is closer to my elbows.

There are tendons going from your fingers all the way to your elbows. These tendons must traverse the narrowing that is your wrist. Tendons are surrounded by a sheath that lets them move freely in one dimension as they extend or contract. There's two sets of these tendons: one below and one above, for bending and extending your fingers, respectively. On the underside of your wrist the tendons for bending your fingers all get close together. Now when you rest your wrists as you type you put pressure on all those tendons and their sheaths, and this causes trouble by increasing friction -- eventually scarring.

Don't do it.

That moonlander looks cool, but I place my keyboard on my lap while typing, so it wouldn't work for me. I like that the switches are replaceable, and it's funny that the first thing they mention about what matters in switch selection is loudness but then fail to list that attribute for any of the switches they offer!

I had really bad arm / wrist issues about 10 years ago due to overuse of crappy small keyboards on laptops, etc. Mechanical keyboards (after a bunch of physical therapy / massage) have been key to keep my arms healthy.

After trying probably 10 different "ergo" keyboards, the one I landed on that has been amazing for a decade is the Kinesis Ergo Advantage2

https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage2-keyboard/

It is split, so helps with that angle, and also has depressions where your fingers go so your hands aren't cocked back causing additional strain. It also has a couple options of the mechanical switches used. Anyone struggling with pain from typing, I'd suggest looking at it. It has a learning curve but it's worth it.

I had the exact same issue with my laptop - and my wrist pain wouldn't go away even after switching to a normal keyboard and watching my posture.

I also bought the Moonlander and have had very minimal pain since (~4 months now). Was thinking about this as I went to bed last night; such a relief. Sometimes I'd have to wear wrist braces at night due to pain.

Regarding the wrist rests, I find that the base of my palms, and not my wrists, touch the wrist rest. Maybe it's the size of my hands and how I have it tented, but overall I like the wrist rests quite a lot. I do try to lift my wrists a little when I'm really typing though.

personally I had trouble until I got a wrist rest that was:

- high enough (forearm to wrist straightish to concave, NOT splayed back)

- just the right softness (too hard = palm fatigue)

- kept my wrists warm enough. I think cold palms/wrists might be a bad situation

for my mouse, I found using a smaller mouse-dedicated wrist rest full of beads worked for me.

why people would use wooden or plastic wrist rest is beyond me. Same for typing with your palms on a cold laptop surface. (also remember there are NO OSHA-approved laptops, they are not ergonomic)

I've never encountered this sort of problem with ANY keyboard I've owned in 30 years, no matter how crappy.

I have, but only under very specific circumstances: playing Overcooked with two players on one keyboard. This will occasionally mean six keys simultaneously pressed and then someone notices key presses just go missing.

Also, not all keyboards with mechanical switches have N-key rollover. Many tout "anti-ghosting" which means different things that you have to look in the specs for.

Actually I lied. I did have trouble getting a shoryureppa off on street fighter, but then I got a joystick and all was well again.

I'm not sure how much typing you do but I've done a LOT! One thing I can say for certain:

Mechanical keyboards are much more comfortable to type on.

I feel like even a 10% increase in comfortableness for something you use every day for just $100 is totally worth it! If you do any amount of typing I really recommend it!

Compared to what? A laptop keyboard or an ergonomically identical mechanical keyboard?

Sorry! I used a membrane keyboard! I don't use laptops much but whenever I do its super uncomfortable! Thats more of the position rather than the keys though.

If you play any games on your computer, then odds are high you are familiar with using the WASD keys for directional movement and the space bar for jumping.

If someone is moving forward (W) and strafing to the right (D) while jumping (Space), they will have reached the key rollover limits of their 3KRO (3 key roll over) membrane-based keyboard.

This means that if they ALSO try to fire off one of their abilities (let's say they have to press "1" to activate their ability), they won't be able to activate it unless they first let go of one of their movement keys.

This is a lot less noticeable in a more advanced keyboard that can do 6 key rollover. It's pretty rare that someone is going to be performing 6 simultaneous actions in a game.

I think the wear could be from people using the same keys very heavily (e.g. WASD) and those failing. I've had failures on both mech (a WASD mx-clear, 7 yrs old) and membrane (ms natural, 1 yr old) keyboards. That's about it. Build quality for the rest of the keyboard is a factor, however.

I eventually threw out my oldest mechanical (1997) because I didn't want to deal with a ps2 adapter anymore. Mecha are a higher price tier, and it's easier to get higher quality. Newer keyboards (2009 onwards) that I still own hold up pretty well.

My Kinesis is distinctly less fatiguing. That's because I don't bottom out the keys when typing. The key activates early and the keyboard beeps. I stop at the beep and it's really more comfortable. My hands can feel a significant difference after a day off typing.

If you're placing your wrist down when typing, it's better to place it higher up. And when rising your hand from idle to typing height, it's less fatiguing to raise it less. A better starting position will likely improve your final typing position.

> >> A good mechanical keyboard can alleviate the fatigue of typing. Users who need to type for a long time can consider it. > This claim seems dubious.

Having had some RSI issues; I have found significant improvement since I started swapping mechanical keyboards around. I don't bottom-out as much which alleviates some finger pain I had after using my previous rubber-dome.

Not for everyone I'm sure; but it does help. I rotate a Magic Keyboard and ~3-4 different mechanical keyboards on various desks to get different angles and pressures also.

I depend on the Kinesis Advantage's ergonomics, but I much prefer the light crispness of laptop keys.