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Comment by andrewla | Hacker News Reader

It's the entire reason that they split off from Netflix in the first place! I bought my first Roku the day it was announced -- 5/20/2008, the "Roku Netflix Player", and I was thrilled with it. They added support for other streaming sources not too long after and I could not have been happier.

The next version had pre-programmed buttons for various services that had paid them off, and I was annoyed, but whatever.

The version after that they wanted me to enter my credit card information just to activate the device.

And finally they just started plastering it with ads, including ads for the "Roku Channel".

I don't know why they couldn't just raise prices and sell a device. I don't know what to do next; I tried an Amazon Fire TV but it's garbage. Chromecast I also found unusable; the app would lose connection all the time so pausing was always an iffy proposition. There are generic Android boxes but I have no idea what to expect quality-wise, and there are options like building my own Kodi box but I don't know how well streaming services are supported. I guess Apple TV is the last option? Last time I tried one it was just okay, and now Apple has its own streaming platform so I'm sure it's going to get into these same fights.

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For what it's worth, I bought an nvidia shield pro and use that. Just like how Roku started, they just make hardware. There are a few subtle adverts are the nvidia remote play stuff (preinstalled applications) but I hardly notice them. They don't have any skin in the streaming space so I find that comforting.

My only slight worry is that it's running on Android TV, so there's always a chance google bans something.

I can also recommend the nvidia shield.

I used to run various PC based home theatre bits of software, but they're all inevitably a pain to manage, don't work right, and require fiddling.

Got the Shield TV pro 2019(?) version, pointed Plex at my NAS, and it plays content flawlessly. Youtube, Amazon Prime, Netflix all work well too.

In theory it also plays games - but Nvidia's game service isn't launched here in Australia, and I've not found a game on the Google Play store that's isn't outright terrible. Steam Link theoretically works, but none of the games in my Steam library are suited to play with a controller. Theoretically there's emulators for various consoles which I've seen people saying is excellent, but I've never been able to make any of them work.

Like just about any modern device - it does need to be rebooted occasionally, but for the most part it's just turn on and go.

I recommend Crypt of the Necrodancer.

FWIW, the Steam Link app also accepts keyboard and mouse input. You can just them up to your shield and it should detect them in the Steam Link app and suddenly you can just go ahead and play Cities: Skylines or whatever on your TV

Ah, rightio.

If I'm going to play those sort of games I'd rather just go sit at my desk. Not really a good way to use those on my lounge.

I got a controller for the Shield with the idea that I could play more console-y type games.

I switched from a Fire TV Stick and a Valve Stream Link to an Nvidia Shield Pro. Very happy as well.

But to be honest I miss Amazon's voice search. It worked much better to find thing from the Netflix and Prime Video catalogs than Google assistant does now.

And on the other hand I actually would like to get the new Google TV interface of the most recent Chromecast. It looks way prettier than the plain Shield home screen and its universal watch list sounds very useful.

Another happy NVIDIA Shield owner here.

I switched from Roku to Shield when the first Shield came out in 2015. That device is still going strong, still plays everything I throw at it, has excellent support with Kodi and Plex and every single catch up TV app is available for it.

6 years later, and NVIDIA is still issuing regular Android updates for it. The only Android device that's getting official support from OEM 6 years after release.

highly recommend.

I also want to add on to the praise for the Nvidia Shield. After a frustrating experience with Roku, Roku stick, and Fire stick, the Shield experience has been great and I haven't regretted it.

I've got a 2015 Shield and while you can't "Uninstall" all the pre-installed stuff, you can disable them through the global app settings.

I've basically disabled everything on my Shield, just leaving Netflix, Disney+, etc. activated and it's made it much more responsive and stable. I had the feeling some of my slowdowns were occurring as apps polled back home to see what content they should be displaying on the home screen, downloading thumbnails, etc. and sure enough, it's now zipping along like the old days.

Just to add to everybody else, I've had this box for nearly 6 years and it's as good as the day I bought it and has kept up with technology in an amazing way. 4K HDR with whatever surround format you throw at it is incredible. Especially as it acts as a Plex server in the background with no major power consumption. I seem to remember only paying £125 for it on an Amazon deal as well. One of my best tech purchases of all time.

If it has a screen and network access, the demand for growth will inevitably lead it to become an ad platform. Or more generally, a market for eyeballs.

Or at the very least it'll become a data collection platform, to be packaged and sold (whether for use with ads directly or for the many consumer intelligence[1] companies that charge gobs of money for aggregate reporting).

[1] https://www.numerator.com/

The shield advertises that it's got google assistant built in. Is there a version that's not a hot mic?

Yours and responders' enthusiasm puts the shield on my list for if my roku stops seeing youtube.

The assistant is built into the remote, not the box. If you wanted, you could buy a different Bluetooth remote or use an old console controller. My PS3 controllers work fine, I use them to play Mario kart 64 and sometimes to control the entire interface if I can't find the main remote.

But the assistant isn't always listening, you need to push a button to turn it on. Considering the remote runs off a couple of AAA batteries which last over a year, it would be impossible for it to be always listening.

That's great to hear. A hardware button is all I've ever asked of these digital assistants. I'm the only person happy with the Bixby button.

Part of this is bc everything is about Reoccurring, monthly revenue. It’s no longer good enough to build a great product , make a nice profit, and move on to the next iteration. A company now must generate (or extract) stable, reoccurring revenue from its products (which for a company/investors is much more appealing than onetime profits). It sucks imo, but it’s infected everything now.

> I don't know why they couldn't just raise prices and sell a device

This comment is exactly my feeling , and why for most products , is an unfortunate outcome of the reoccurring rev model.

Yeah, remember Pebble :(

I still use my Pebble Time (with another for when it dies) and use Pebble-Rebble to keep it working on Android (11).

You can buy a mini desktop computer for $100 and just plug it in to the TV. Control it with a $10 wireless keyboard, and watch anything that you can watch in a web browser (Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc.).

https://lee-phillips.org/tcDebian/

But this lacks a nice and clean UI to watch Youtube, Netflix, etc. I wouldn't want to control a browser displayed on a TV with a wireless keyboard.

Couldn't you run Plex or similar as the UI?

Does YouTube.com/TV work for you?

That seems to be a (delayed) redirect to the youtube.com home page, at least for me in Firefox on Ubuntu.

Use a smart tv user agent and it will work on a desktop.

I've been doing it for close to 10 years. I hate trying to navigate on friends/parents smart tvs. They are slow, the UI doesnt always make a lot of sense, the cable provider guide always seems to be fighting with the smart tv guide/pages.

Is that really a nice and clean UI compared to Windows which most people are familiar with?

Things have evolved a lot in the last 10 years. I've had an HTPC for that long as well, and it has its place but if you spend a bit more than the $20 for the cheapest streaming sticks, any of the modern streaming devices are extremely snappy and responsive and much more enjoyable to navigate via a remote than dealing with a wireless keyboard and mouse. The smoothness of the video stream is also in general better from my experience than streaming via a webbrowser. And that's setting aside all the downsides of HTPC streaming due to losing out on 4K, HDR and 5.1 audio streams.

I love my HTPC, but its role has changed over the years in my living room.

It varies wildly my TV manufacturer. My parent's smart TV is god-awful to navigate. You have to go into an app to get to the streaming apps...like what?

But my TV has Roku built-in and it's smooth as silk for the most part. Most of the issues I encounter are app-related. Like HBO Max is really clunky, but Netflix is rock-solid.

Yeah, my Roku Streaming Stick+ plays everything just fine. The only thing I use Kodi on my Pi for these days is anime with SSA/ASS formatted subtitles since the Roku can only handle SRT format, which means you don't get nice formatting for times when there's one subtitle for dialogue at the same time as a subtitle for a piece of text

Maybe this is a semantics argument but if you have to add something additional to the TV for it to play well then it doesnt really seem like that speaks to the quality of the TV UI.

I totally agree that Smart TV interface is abysmal. I bought the latest LG OLED with WebOS thinking it would be the closest to "the future". So wrong. The OS hangs consistently. Apps don't load. When you start adding streaming sticks and multiple remotes, everything gets confusing. Still. It's 2021.

I think this speaks to the opportunity ahead for TVs rather than an argument for attaching a PC. Why can't all these HDMI sticks just be virtual devices? Provide an app store that gives you a Roku or Firestick. Why is identifying me and signing into all my streaming services still so difficult and full of friction? There is so much runway for simply a better TV. Start with good hardware. Build up a modern operating system that is smooth and just works. Don't even have a built in remote. Start with the assumption that all my interaction will be with 3rd party remotes and make them all work with zero/one touch. When I start interacting with a remote, the TV should know what I am trying to do (PS4, Xbox, Roku, Apple TV, etc) and simply respond with the interface. The core HW operating system should be nearly invisible. Stay out of the way. No Ads. no app stores. No crap. Build all of that in layers on top.

Imagine a specific example:

1. I purchase a Roku _remote_.

2. I unbox the remote and point it at my TV.

3. My TV downloads the Roku virtual stick and starts giving me the Roku interface. In the background. As a user, I don't care about any of that crap.

4. Roku accesses a touchid or faceid to load my account.

5. Roku installs all my apps I use automatically.

6. The apps on Roku call Roku APIs to identify me and sign me into these apps automatically (Netflix, Hulu, etc).

With the right TV and _hardware_ OS, the TV experience could be so much better.

And don't get me started on channel guides. The whole premise of assuming events are pre-planned on a fix statically scheduled grid is soooo old school. Center the TV guide around "events" rather than a grid of time slots. Events are the centerpiece of live TV, from news to sports. You basically just need 2 flows to cover all of TV: on demand "content" and "events".

EDIT: I would also add some "pre" and "post" concept around events. This could hook social media into the TV. Every app from Clubhouse, Twitter, Live podcasts, etc. could plug into a pre or post show for key events they cover.

The experience is smoother with Roku TV. You only have one UI to deal with.

I don't have one, but I can believe it. However, as we have just witnessed, we can't lock ourselves into a single streaming provider as an OS. Business agreements can end. I think what we want with HW is the ability to use these providers as low-level apps. Start with the assumption that the TV is simply a pass through device but gives platforms control of the full screen only when _their_ remote is in use. Build the user interface around full screen control that is only pre-emptible with remote accessory.

> 1. I purchase a Roku _remote_.

> 5. Roku installs all my apps I use automatically.

Maybe I'm missing something that should have been implied, but whose Roku is this (and how does it know), and why should your remote have any say about which apps (read: remote code execution) it installs?

Its your Roku hardware remote that you buy. When the remote is paired with the TV, the tv recognizes the remote (HW signed, TV manufacturer approves this whitelist), the tv downloads the roku operating system and starts running it. This simply replaces wasteful HDMI interfaces, SoCs, etc and provides hooks for the tv to have better control over the experience. You could imagine extending this to video game controllers like Amazon Luna or Google Stadia.

Eh, it isn't great, but you get used to it and it is a hell of a lot better than dealing with all the bullshit of the various bespoke players.

Then you simply get to decide which one of these bothers you more:

- A wireless keyboard and web browser - Ads being mercilessly shoved down your throat

Or, for Youtube (I guess you could use the same device for Netflix, Plex client, etc.), you could get the best of both worlds: Chromecast-like controls for YouTube and an ad blocker (the info from that link can be adapted for a desktop): https://www.linuxuprising.com/2021/04/how-to-cast-youtube-vi...

It was a lot better when MS still had Windows Media Center (last in Win 8.1). I could actually watch cable tv with a cablecard system through windows. Full DVR, accurate guides, able to use WMC remotes, could watch on any computer attached to the network, etc. It was one slick system.

Have you tried it? In my experience its far nicer then most "Smart TV" or media devices in a similar price range. (certain devices like the apple tv have acceptable UI's but they are a little pricier).

I personally use one with an integrated mouse and its very convenient https://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Wireless-Keyboard-Control-To...

Plex to chromecast works great for me

I completely disagree. I have a Roku-powered TV, Amazon FireTV, Chromecast Ultra, and have used quite a lot of "smart TV" interfaces. They all suck compared to KDE + VLC + Firefox (with uBlock Origin). Smart TV/device interfaces aren't even in the same league!

Example: By the time the Netflix app is open in Roku I will have already found the show and have it playing on my Linux desktop in Firefox.

Not only that but the apps are severely limited in functionality compared to what you get on the websites for the same provider. Even just scrolling through shows/movies is a bazillion times faster and good luck trying to find a specific place in the middle of a show using a regular remote control! haha. With a mouse I can just click right in the middle of that progress bar and be done.

Then there's things like Funimation: Their apps all suck so bad that the website seems like a dream in comparison even though the website is so awful it makes web developers visibly gag. The benefit the computer has is that it's trivial to load up those same shows on pirate sites when Funmation stops loading/playing videos again (on any given day you could have about a 5% chance of a Funimation video actually playing).

I usually find the ui on desktop browsers to be most friendly to my needs. Couple that with all the customization options I have from it being a normal computer, it's by far my choice device for watching tv

You won’t be able to watch HD content on Netflix or Amazon Prime (at the very least) that way though. You can only get HD streaming via a browser on Windows, which appears to have an exception to the usual DRM rules.

edit: As pointed out below, Windows is implementing DRM via decoding in hardware, which WideVine (Google’s DRM layer) on desktop Linux doesn’t / can’t do, so there’s no special exemption here.

Thanks for pointing this out, I wasn’t aware.

You can watch HD in the Netflix app on Windows if your hardware supports HDCP.

Edge on Windows also gets HD from Netflix and Amazon, because it uses the same DRM pipeline as the app does (Microsoft PlayReady).

There's no exemption from the DRM rules here, Edge and the app implement hardware backed DRM systems.

WideVine is level3 for browsers on the Desktop: https://go.buydrm.com/thedrmblog/why-google-widevines-drm-is...

I guess Windows streaming is going via PlayReady then.

Widevine is not used by Edge for Windows, as you say PlayReady is.

(Well, Widevine actually is also present for a site to use if you really want to, but other than being too lazy to have two license servers there's very little reason why you would.)

Microsoft have not ported PlayReady to other OSes, so Edge for Mac/Linux does use Widevine and gets Level 3.

You can get 1080p with Netflix or Amazon Prime in Firefox on Linux. It just requires some addons to modify their client app js (because the DRM verification level is high enough, it's only their frontend that disables this)

Except that the WideVine DRM library under Linux only does software decoding, so HD video tends to stutter according to the issue logs on said extensions on GitHub. Assuming you get it to work at all of course.

I haven't had any lag issues with it and my HTPC is running a 12-year-old processor with a 10-year-old AMD GPU. Maybe it's an Intel or Nvidia driver issue?

I'm running KDE and have it configured to disable the compositor when an app goes full screen. Maybe that's your issue? Try turning off desktop effects and screwing around with your compositor settings.

Edit: I want to point out that since my GPU can't handle 4k the desktop resolution is limited to ~2k (whatever the highest was that it can handle at 60Hz--I forget now haha).

I assume that that was a point in regards with $100 mini-pc (think ARM-based one). Your 12-year old device likely has more performance comparing to those modern and cheap pc's.

I already get 1080p on Netflix in Firefox on Linux.

However, Amazon Prime on the same setup gets me 720p at most. (This is a regression because I _know_ I used to watch the first few seasons of The Expanse in 1080.)

Which add-ons allow you to watch Prime in 1080p on Linux? I wasn't able to find them.

Same experience here, Netflix works without too much hassle, but Prime is limited to a much lower bitrate than on Windows.

At one point I experimented a bit with making an addon myself, and it's possible to intercept the requests and spoof the UA/platform to get URLs for the HD streams, but then it goes to VMP/widevine and is a bit beyond my abilities. Best I could get was for the HD quality option to appear in the UI, but with a complaint that it wouldn't work because I needed to update or use a different browser.

Now pretty much the only time I use Prime video is for the occasional watchparty, and I'll just pirate the stuff I want to see in HD.

It costs 129 today at amazon. Plus 10 for the keyboard it is 140.

For 30~50 I can get a Fire TV that can plays for all the sources that I use (Netflix, Amazon Video, and Diskey+), and save on the electricity bill.

Sure. But my comment was a response to the problems people are having with these streaming devices. Plus, with the mini desktop you have a full-blown Linux computer. You could even record TV on it (though I haven’t tried this).

I have an HTPC hooked up to my LG C9, but an HTPC really is not a great option for streaming content if you have a reasonably good TV and/or sound system. You lose HDR and in most cases 4K streaming if you try to view content via a web browser for most streaming services. You also lose higher quality audio and 5.1 audio streams with most services when viewing through a web browser. And then there is the issue that browser based streaming is just never quite as smooth and stutter free as streaming on any decently capable modern streaming device due to the native hardware acceleration and the fact that you don't have an entire OS with a bunch of other things running on it competing for CPU/GPU cycles at any given time.

The LG C9 processor is quite powerful and extremely snappy. My HTPC is almost always an inferior option on that front. I would rather recommend someone buy something like the nVidia shield instead of an HTPC if they mainly consume content via streaming services. I still like my HTPC for other uses and it is also great for Zoom/Skype calls with friends and family from my living room.

Audio, in particular, is much less likely to "just work" on a $100 computer than a Roku. Ditto things like HDR.

[edit] by "audio" I mean, in particular, sending the right codecs to get surround sound for a particular source, when you ought to have it.

Absolutely true. Primitive stereo is good enough for me, but not for everyone.

The latest Chromecast is an Android TV box with its own remote (in the stick form factor). Coming from Google, it's probably the highest quality Android TV box you'll find, and quite affordable. It does come with some Google "bells and whistles", but nothing I found intrusive, and they can be disabled.

Last time I looked Netflix wasn't available on it, is that still the case?

That was never the case. The remote even has a dedicated Netflix button.

It was the case at one point [0]. It stopped me buying one. It seems it's back in a limited form [1]

[0] https://9to5google.com/2020/11/25/google-tv-netflix-dropped/

[1] https://9to5google.com/2021/03/11/netflix-directory-comes-ba...

Those articles are about the content aggregation feature of the "Google TV" app.

The Netflix app has been working the entire time on the "Chromecast with Google TV" device, which is what cprecioso recommended.

That's referring to the aggregated listing view that the device provides across many providers. There are still individual apps. The Netflix app (which is what the dedicated button on the remote launches by default) still works. I'm a Netflix subscriber and have been using the new Chromecast since it was released.

Netflix is definitely available, and the main app I use on there

You can turn on "apps only" mode which gets rid of most of the pre-loaded stuff, though one massive advertisement remains on the main homepage. Huge improvement over the Fire Stick which doesn't let you turn off the Amazon junk that takes over 90% of the menu real estate. Roku is still clean and simple and you can hide stuff you don't want. But massive downside is its a closed ecosystem and you can't load APKs and are at the whims of Roku removing apps after you buy it.

I 100% didn't know there were ads on the UI -- guess my adblocking DNS setup is working perfectly

The UI is 95%+ ads, I wonder how it looks like with adblocking.

Nope, the nVidia Shield is miles ahead.

Chromecast with Google TV doesn't have TrueHD support, ethernet, 6/8ch PCM HDMI output, automatic frame-rate switch, game streaming (yes this is an obvious troll, but still it is true). nVidia Shield have those, and more.

The google TV chromecast does support wired ethernet, but you need to buy the separate adapter for it.

The nVidia Shield is also like 3-4x as expensive.

I love my 2015 Shield. I do with that Nvidia would release a new Shield with a better SoC though. Even the 2019 model has essentially the same chip. The chip is still fine for all streaming, I'd just like more horsepower for emulation.

Then hope the UK government approves the ARM acquisition.

Be aware that you'll be forced to share your GPS location with Google during the set-up, there's no way around it. You'll also need to do the setup with the Google Home app which requires you to set up a "Home", which is way overkill if all you want is a Chromecast.

Also, the Nvidia Shield is truly a lot better in terms of hardware and application support. Quite a lot of Chromecast "apps" are inferior to the Android TV versions that also run on the Shield.

> Be aware that you'll be forced to share your GPS location with Google during the set-up

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of the location permission: it's probably requesting that to connect to the Chromecast via WiFi Direct or Bluetooth. Android buckets that into location because you can figure out a user's location by looking at nearby WiFi networks/Bluetooth beacons.

Have you tried consuming less media overall?

I'm at the point where not only are the various set-top boxes and smart devices trash, but the content is as well.

I don't want to watch recycled stories from my childhood, but darker and grittier. I imagine good content exists, but honestly I just can't be bothered to hunt it down anymore, and then wade through the literal sea of ads required to watch it.

The Criterion Channel is very good.

Underrated comment. Sorry, this is a little provocative, but an effective end game here is to wean yourself off of Media Consumption As A Hobby, and find other things to do that don't involve getting your eyeballs milked by media companies. Simply finding another milking machine that doesn't (yet) bombard you with ads is a halfway solution.

Books continue to exist, for example.

Books can be ads or filled with ads.

Unplugging completely is the way to go! Sometimes the only way to win the game is to just not play at all.

Can only talk for me, but I watch maybe an hour of TV at most a day maximum - generally two episodes of a light comedy before bed each day. On top of that I'll watch one movie or documentary a week - I don't think that is excessive. But when I do want to watch this, I just want it to work. I use chromecast and since changing broadband provider and getting a new router it has misbehaved loads. Watching some last thing TV has become a chore - getting it to play first time, and then pausing or skipping is now a pain. Ordered a new router which should fix things - but a working tool to consume (however much or little you do) makes life simpler. I don't want to battle technology for my limited video entertainment.

Finding great stuff is hard - but the less you watch the longer the good stuff lasts! The Office USA has been great for wind down entertainment.

For Darker and Grittier content...try HBO Max. They have some of the darkest shows such as The Night Of, Watchmen etc.

Other languages can help. It s easier if the next language is english, but I always come back to French when Im fed up of the trash. It s so different, has its own little world and self reference, and it gets me going for a while.

I imagine every language has the same unique stories and content that will never be translated well enough.

This is definitely my experience as well. I'm constantly just watching the good stuff from the past, because the newer stuff is absolutely awful.

I can’t tell if this is just an artifact of getting old or new stuff is worse than old stuff. After all, my parents still like stuff from their youth that I don’t like.

Vimeo has a bunch of great content.

How about the nvidia shield? It runs android tv so can install kodi etc and can sideload smart-youtube which removes all ads.

Plus one to this. I've had a shield for years, and am very happy with it. I use smart-youtube which removes YT ads. It "just works"

Man—all I can say is most tech companies suck these days in that way. Bought a Samsung “smart” tv and a couple months later got an update—now it’s showing McDonalds ads. Like WTF I paid $500 for a TV but that’s not good enough?

The ad industry is a cesspool these days.

It's the consumer hardware industry as a whole. The combination of heavy competition on street price and a dearth of salient new features (my mid-tier TV from 2017 is effectively identical in features to its modern counterparts) has encouraged the manufacturers to supplement the one-time revenue from sales with ongoing revenue from advertising, spyware and kickbacks from the subscription streaming companies.

Try an LG TV with webOS. I know it sounds crazy but it works so well these days. It makes dongles feel 2nd rate (at least when used on the LG) because of how integrated and useful the TV interface is. I don't think streaming devices were ever meant to be a permanent thing. That’s kinda the job of the TV if you think about it.

Unless you want to watch HBO Max, in which case you need a dongle….

Lack of an HBO Max app is annoying for sure. I just play it on my iphone and then AirPlay to the TV which isn't too bad. Now if Windows Laptops could cast OTA better that would be the best... haven't been able to get the windows airplay equivalent to work at all

That’s annoying.. I didn’t realize because I have some form of HBO as an Amazon prime video channel. So at least there’s that. Also using echo studios as sound output requires a Fire TV....

Just get Plex, it works everywhere and you don't have to worry about all the fighting between companies.

I use to use Plex, but they changed the UI to include all sorts of junk that I didn't want; really made it unusable for me as I didn't want adult films (not porn, but not kids friendly) being advertised on the home screen. I only used it for pictures and home videos but they wrecked it; couldn't find a way to go back.

The home screen and side bars are all fully customizable. It's a little annoying they turn them on by default as they add channels but you can turn them off easily.

I tried turning everything off, still had content thumbnails and details I didn't want and lacked the home screen stuff I did (it has been great previously). Waited for the next two revisions to see if it was fixed, no better so I moved on. Sounds like it's good for you: I literally wanted only local network content, nothing from the net, is that how you have it?

Might consider going back but we don't look at family pics that often and vlc works well enough.

I unfortunately bought a roku right before all this went down, but fortunately there's a Jellyfin app for it. Jellyfin is an open source media server that is probably the closest to Plex in functionality.

"The next version had pre-programmed buttons for various services that had paid them off, and I was annoyed, but whatever."

I cut those buttons off with a knife because I kept accidentally pressing them just by picking up or holding the remote, which would exit whatever I was currently watching.

We used to love our roku. Still do, and we have owned various versions for nearly as long as you. Even went with a roku tv at one point.

I bought an LG OLED CX this past November. I was planning to hook a roku up to it. My experience with smart tvs in the past has been hugely underwhelming to downright unusable. But I've been more than happy with just using the apps on the LG tv. Your mileage may vary, but I have a good picture quality and I'm pretty happy with the remote. It allows me to program the keypad to hard-press them to launch an app of my choice. Additionally, they have their own channel offerings similar to Pluto.

I have heard great things about the Shield as well. That is probably the closest you can find to without building your own HTPC.

Another happy LG OLED and Shield owner here! I use the Shield when playing more difficult-to-play media from Plex (stuff like high-bitrate HDR content with lossless audio), and the built-in apps on the TV the rest of the time. Heck, even Apple TV is available as an app on the LG.

yes the biggest complaint I have is the no DTS support. A lot of my plex library has DTS audio. I've generally been able to avoid it now, but it took me by surprise the first time my file had no audio.

Everyone seems to love the LG WebOS software, I seem to be the only one that absolutely hates it. I have the LG E9 (previous generation, one year old). The picture is great but I hate just about everything else about it. Having to point at things with the "magic remote" is the least usable input interface I've ever encountered -- I'm not sure if I'm just completely devoid of motor skills but I find it ridiculously difficult to point at a particular thing on the screen, especially if it's a small hitbox. I genuinely don't understand how anyone likes it (but I know they do). I guess I'm the only one who still sometimes watches linear TV but the on-screen program guide is basically unusable; it takes literally a full minute to load 2 hours' worth of shows for the currently displayed 10 channels sometimes (and then repeat if you scroll to view a different 10 channels). Meanwhile my cheap Samsung dumb TV from 5 years ago works flawlessly (other than being only 1080p) and it's easy to browse with the arrow-key-based remote.

> Having to point at things with the "magic remote"

Yeah accidentally switching that one caused some grief the first week as I fumbled for the "right" button to dismiss it. But Having to use it is not my experience. Does the previous generation insist you use it?

We generally use the same 3 or 4 apps. Embarrassingly it took us a couple months to figure out we could program the keypad and hardpress the button to launch custom apps. Not its merely telling the other to "turn on 2" etc.

> . I guess I'm the only one who still sometimes watches linear TV but the on-screen program guide is basically unusable; it takes literally a full minute to load 2 hours'

That is a fair complaint. I've not really had that experience, but I don't watch much linear tv. But I doubt you are not the only one to watch tv this way.

We chose this TV after our Roku TV broke after 2 years. Surprisingly enough Amazon gave us a full refund for the broken TV. Even gave us an extra $30 to purchase a TV box.

> Yeah accidentally switching that one caused some grief the first week as I fumbled for the "right" button to dismiss it. But Having to use it is not my experience. Does the previous generation insist you use it?

You're right, it can be dismissed that way. I looked for a way to disable it completely and quickly found that wasn't possible, but I did discover the right-arrow trick you mentioned. But it doesn't make it disappear for long, and I never managed to build up the reflex of pressing it regularly (it's kind of non-obvious, you have to admit), and to be honest I'd mostly forgotten right-arrow did that. But thank you for reminding me, I may have to try to work on that muscle memory.

One downside to many SmartTVs including those sold by Samsung and LG is that they do ACR (automatic content recognition). It tells the TV manufacturer what you're watching so they can sell it to ad networks. I _think_ a pihole kills it, but the safest thing to do is to unaccept any privacy policies or to not give it wifi. Either option will disable built-in apps.

This is very true. I've been losing this battle with my wife in other areas of our life and have just, generally, given in I suppose. She still thinks I'm a nut and its only a coincidence that the arcane thing we were just discussing is now showing up as an advertisement somewhere.

Don't all the set top boxes (other than open source) collect and sell your info as well?

The AppleTV does not as far as I know.

yeah, until they start putting cellular modems in these things. only a matter of time. don't new LG/samsung TVs connect to open wifi now if they can't connect to yours?

Not agreeing to the privacy policy should prevent that. Until of course they say you need to agree in order to use the TV at all.

> I don't know why they couldn't just raise prices and sell a device.

They're publicly traded, so selling only hardware makes their business model too predictable and 'low-growth' for Wall St. Also competitors could eat their lunch considering that their hardware isn't any more complex than a $50 Android TV box you can get at a flea market.

In order to create a moat to stave off competition, you make your business model all about 'services', with an increasingly less important hardware component.

As we can see in this case, there's apparently lots of pressure from service providers not to be just a dumb, neutral piece of hardware. And, in my opinion, the control that streaming services have over hardware can be traced back to DRM anti-circumvention laws. The fact that it's illegal to build hardware that controverts dumb restrictions mandated by the streaming services by breaking their DRM means that hardware manufacturers. will risk being cut off by streaming services.

> As we can see in this case, there's apparently lots of pressure from service providers not to be just a dumb, neutral piece of hardware.

I assumed it was the opposite: Roku decided, instead of merely selling neutral hardware, they'd make themselves some extra money by charging streaming services.

And that naturally means services disappearing - if Service A is paying you $1/user/month and you'd like them to pay you $2/user/month you gotta remove their app until they cough up.

According to Roku, the reason for this conflict is demands Google made about the hardware in Roku devices and how Roku handles search results with YouTube open. A Roku representative claimed they ask for not $1 of financial compensation. Of course, they could be lying, but Google hasn't provided an alternate reason.

I use Chromecast heavily --- I used to have some problems with getting connected and staying connected until I replaced my ISP provided router with a new Netgear Nighthawk. On top of connecting to wifi taking about 1 second to complete (versus tens of seconds on the old router), I now have zero issues with Chromecast. Unfortunately the reliability of Chromecast is pretty dependent by how good your WiFi network is

I got a Nexus Player to use as a Chromecast, initially because it had 5 GHz wireless, but then I figured out that you can use an USB OTG adapter to plug an ethernet adapter into the micro USB port. That worked even better.

Frustrating that the new ones don’t have an ethernet jack on them. WiFi in a condo or apartment building is unreliable and slow.

EDIT: Nevermind, they have official ones built into the power bricks! https://store.google.com/collection/accessories_wall?compati...

The new Chromecast devices definitely support 5Ghz WiFi btw- I use the 4K variant for all of my TVs and they are all using the 5Ghz variant of my WiFi network.

Yeah, the Nexus Player predates those. The OG Chromecast, which I also had, did not. I bought the Nexus Player to replace it.

Also, it seems that you can really enhance the functionality of the device with other peripherals by connecting up a USB-C hub: https://gizmodo.com/how-to-use-a-usb-c-hub-to-upgrade-your-c... .

I've been using the new Google TV (different from just a Chromecast dongle) and think it's pretty good, especially if you're also using other Google apps and services. $50 is a pretty reasonable price for the feature-set, and 1/3 of the cost of an Apple TV.

Streaming works fine on Linux, even from Disney.

I'll second this, with the caveat that you won't always get HD streams.

Netflix only supports 720p on Linux, and I believe Amazon Prime is limited to SD as well.

Disney+ doesn't support Linux, but works for me right now with a spoofed user agent, and claims to be 1080P. YouTube TV works fine without any spoofing, and also claims to be 1080P.

I don't know if Hulu works now, I haven't tried it in years. Vudu doesn't support Linux and I didn't try to work around it. Not sure about any of the other new services like HBO Max, or the CBS or NBC streaming services.

720p is still technically HD. SD is 480.

Not even technically, 720p is HD. 1080p is "Full HD" (FHD) and 4k is "Ultra HD" (UHD).

You're both correct, I'm not sure why I made that mistake because I definitely know the difference.

I believe Amazon currently is restricted to SD/480p, at least, that's all I can get with Firefox right now.

I gave up on Roku when they and/or NowTV unlawfully deleted a side-loaded app from my device.

Moved to FireTV which has plesk as a downloadable, that allows me to view photos off my local network as I was doing before ... Plex is awful now, the UX is terrible for me (it's geared to viewing Plex's content, which I have never used nor wanted), so I moved to just using VLC (clunky for photo viewing but good enough).

We only use Netflix, Youtube and free catch-up channels and only have 1080p, but FireTV was/is way better than the Roku device was.

What's garbage about FireTV?

I wanted HBOMax and I had given away my AppleTV. I wasn't going to buy a new AppleTV until they upgraded it, so I bought a FireTV. Aside from the ads, it works really well and the remote is decent.

I've gotten used to it, and now that the new AppleTV is out, I probably won't even bother upgrading. Or if I do, I'm on the fence about it.

The Roku interface is easily the worst of the bunch.

It doesn't take much effort to unpin the Plex channels from your home page, or remove them completely from your account settings. It's annoying that they're the default, but it's not a huge deal either.

I tried unpinning the Plex stuff, didn't work for, didn't put local content on home either. Maybe errors at my end; had used and liked it for a couple of years before that.

Nvidia shield is great, just make sure you get a pro. For reasons I’ll never understand, they dropped the standard model to 8GB of memory which causes it to run low on memory with some apps.

I don't know why they couldn't just raise prices and sell a device.

Because "everyone else is doing it."

It's the reason that the entirety of the tech industry seems to be getting worse, not better. Outside of the people who get profiles in the Wall Street Journal, there are no real leaders, only followers now. And with the bloating of middle-management ranks, reliance on consultants, and fear of leaving the comfort of mediocrity, the lack of leadership only gets worse.

I went through similar products. The last one was an android box. I was tearing out my hair after every upgrade. It is just not worth the problems. Raspberry Pi might be a good option but only v3. The new v4 has problems and there are very hacky ways the get the GPU acceleration working. At this stage an Apple Tv or maybe an Intel NUC might be the best options.

No, Hastings canceled the project when it was already done to allow them to spin off because he didn’t want to be seen as in competition with hardware makers. He wanted Netflix to be everywhere.

Amazon has the same business model as Roku with the Fire.

They don’t raise prices for a few reasons

1. People are cheap

2. Most of their installed based is now coming from cheap low margin TVs with Roku embedded.

3. Selling a device that people only replace once every 5 years isn’t sustainable.

There is only one company selling streaming devices at a profit - Apple. Have you noticed that every streaming provider is on AppleTV day one even though it has the lowest market share by far?

Streaming providers can just download Xcode, follow a few simple requirements (not link to their website for payments) and submit an app.

Before I get the standard replies, no streaming providers are not required to go through in app purchases and many don’t - including YouTube Live TV.

Also before I get the other retort. Yes they do have to work with Apple to be integrated into the TV app. Which is an app on iOS devices.

> They don’t raise prices for a few reasons

>1. People are cheap

This is always the answer. Or rather they can not raise prices, because then sufficient number of consumers will not buy the product.

Yes. And the definition of a “sufficient number of people” is different for Roku where their entire business is based on selling streaming boxes and Apple where sells of streaming box is a “hobby” and less than a rounding error.

Given a choice, I would rather have an AppleTV and pay more for a better user experience than pay less for a Roku.

That being said, we have multiple Roku TVs throughout our house and they are good enough. But the two I use most frequently also have ATV4Ks. I also couldn’t in good conscience recommend that most people get ATVs at their current prices.

They should offer a few beefier, higher margin devices. I'd pay for no load times, for instance.

Have you tried an Nvidia Shield?

> I don't know why they couldn't just raise prices and sell a device.

Not many companies can survive with Apple's business model, but without the luxury Apple brand.

I miss my Roku Soundbridge. It made streaming music in a time when that was hard. I'd listen to SomaFM coming through my stereo for hours a day.

They have a remote that lets you customize the buttons now - https://www.roku.com/products/accessories/roku-voice-remote-...

The fire tv and android tv both have ads/recommendations that take up more space, at least roku ads get in the way less.

I wish there was a kindle like option to pay and remove ads on all these devices.

Apple TV is quite good these days.

Nvidia shield was okay. But expensive

FiretTV has been great for us.

Unfortunately the exact same thing is happening with Apple TV right now. A really great box but they are absolutely jamming Apple TV+ down their users’ throats.

How do? I don’t notice any push to watch Apple stuff when I navigate directly to Netflix or Prime Video...

Just take all of the apps off the top bar and put other apps up there. Any app on the top bar can control the hero banner.

The Apple TV app is completely optional (and I hope it stays that way). The inly time I open it is to watch Apple TV+ shows.

P.S. They made the homescreen button goback to A the Apple TV app a while ago. This behavior can be changed go make it go back to the home screen.

The TV app is the single greatest feature of the Apple TV, though. I have one list of shows I am watching (sans Netflix because they are petty, I don’t subscribe to them for more than a month at a time to binge a few shows though); multiple, even, because each person in the house has their own.

At least there's a setting to make the 'TV' button take you to the home screen instead of the Apple TV+ app, and unlike Roku when monitoring network traffic the Apple TV is pretty quiet when not in use, unlike the Roku that is constantly chattering with ad services... ads on the home screen.. yuck.

the Roku that is constantly chattering with ad services

This is indeed annoying. But it's easy enough to fix with pihole. That just leaves 1/3 of the home screen being wasted space.

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