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namelosw

I feel there's a full cycle of buying keyboards. I wonder do people feel the same?

1. Buy mechanical keyboards with click sounds, preferably blue switch ones.

2. (Optional) tweak keycaps

3. (Optional) tweak customized keyboards

4. Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said. Then proceed to buy one, and couldn't be happier

5. Actually, I could be happier because I don't care about keyboards anymore - my favorite is a silent red switch one because it's doesn't draw attention (both mine and others'). Also never go back to keyboard forums or subreddits.

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I just want the keyboard to have those nice color keycaps and the tactile sensation to remind me of old IBM keyboards I used to have as a child.

Those were the days when simply using a computer or touching a keyboard was a rush, computers were rare and everything was so mysterious. Now they are commodities without much poetry in them. So I want the poetry back.

Totally agree. I had an IBM 386DX. That’s how it made me feel.

Curly cable keyboard and everything

Note that the IBM Model M is actually a "membranical" design. Beneath the famous buckling spring is a bit of metal that strikes a contact membrane to close the circuit and register a keypress.

That said, it's nothing like the rubber dome pieces of crap we associate with membrane keyboards; its durability and keyfeel are still legendary. The membranical design may have contributed to its durability by making it less susceptible to dust and dirt.

Topre caps are also a rubber dome design.

Rose-tinted glasses: the reason the Model M is a membrane keyboard is because it was heavily cost-reduced / cheapened down from prior designs.

As far as I know, the Model F is the real built-like-a-tank keyboard that almost makes a Model M seem flimsy by comparison.

Note you can buy new Model F reproductions: https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/store/

They're not cheap.

I still love the patent name for it: "Catastrophically buckling compression column switch and actuator". Still wondering what is catastrophic about it.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3699296A/en

> Still wondering what is catastrophic about it.

The behaviour is described by catastrophe theory [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophe_theory

You can buy a Unicomp keyboard which is the IBM Model M that's still being manufactured by the former Lexmark employees on the original equipment.

I have 2 WASD's (blue and green), a Poker2, an OLD Razer Black Widow, and a few others. I always said that when Unicomp made a tenkeyless version, it would be a day-1 purchase. Two days ago, I just noticed that they started shipping in February. I bought one on the spot.

That's great news! I'm here typing on my 36 year old IBM type m because I've tried the rest, including WASD, and found them wanting.

How is it? How's the noise compared to blues? I need something quieter for zoom.

I think there is a distinct branch to this path. When you start building your own mechanical, ergonomic keyboards. I know this because I have built my first one couple of weeks ago [1], and am already thinking of how I can improve it.

[1] https://kubami.com/articles/split-keyboard-build/

Same here. I built a Dactyl Manuform, and it was definitely worth the hassle. I do agree with the OP that the stuff you see on the MK subreddit and similar sites is ridiculous, and mostly rip-offs.

I'm wanting to a 'tracktly' with a track ball on the right thumb cluster.

Gotta admit - the DM cases look like a bear to solder in.

I'm no expert, so it was kinda tough to get everything in, yes :D

Kudos on the perserverance :-)

Hope you didn't burn too many fingers! :-D

I cycle through these steps but, fortunately, only in my mind. I browse through e-commerce shops, read all the blogs, DYI keyboards and what not. But in the end I realize that my current keyboard, Apple Magic, isn’t too bad. So I tell myself if it isn’t broken why fix it and get back to work.

1. Switch from cheap membrane to MX Brown mechanical, feels good

2. Buy Topre Realforce, fully satisfied for switch

3. Buy split mechanical keyboard, found split is really mandatory

4. Find best switch, but not satisfied as Topre

5. Wait for split Topre forever

I am at topre and love it.

I ended up with realforce rgb and don't care about the rgb, except it's really nice to have a lighted keyboard at night.

I don't think there's an RGB PFU, is there?

I added the little topre foam surround damper things and it was kind of expensive, but made it a lot more comfortable (and maybe quieter).

Use LED light bars that attaches to LCD, a la ThinkLight vs MacBook backlights.

For me it's more like this:

1. Skip your 1,2,3,4 and just get am inexpensive Cherry MX-Board

2. After several years, realize that I'm not really happy with keyboard because it boosts my bad posture. So I see if there is a split keyboard that suites my needs.

3. Damn, I need to test switches (luckily a friend has a nice selection of testers).

3. I think I might prefer tactile, but I don't want to blow the money on an expensive split keyboard to learn I don't like tactile - so better go with hot swappable switches.

4. Realize the exact board I would prefer doesn't exist.

5. Do some research on firmware, keyboard matrix circuit,...

6. Use the opportunity to learn kicad over eagle.

Started with 6. yesterday. Actually it's not that complicated, I'm more afraid of hand soldering 100 SK6812 Mini-E and 100 kailh sockets than of the rest.

When I opened up my board to swap the switches, I realized it had unused RGB pads...soo of course I hand solder 60 2-3mm surface mount LEDs to it. Yep, last time I do that :-P But it worked, which was the fun part...

the sad part is, I don't even like RBG on computer gear

I'm not a huge RGB person, either. But my Thinkpad has plain white background LEDs. And even though I type blindly 98% of the time, I find it more comfortable to have some (slight) hinting when positioning.

Sad part for me: TIL that most keycaps with "shine through" need the LED above/north of the switch (else the LED mostly blinds the user), which means I need to rotate all switches by 180 deg. But the GMK caps (which are considered some of the "best") are known to cause trouble with that orientation. And some switches might be feel different as well.

Yeah - my vortex rebuild (1) has south facing LEDs, so they're basically useless. The only thing I really liked about shine thru's was the ability to occasionally change up the legend colors (ohh - maybe amber or yellow legends today? or blue!)

1 https://imgur.com/gallery/IBScxqJ

I'm glad I just started at 5 in that list.

For me it's a Filco Majestouch TKL with Cherry Rex MX Silent switches. Relatively fast typist (130-150wpm) coding/emails most of the day.

Anything louder just wouldn't work given WFH constraints.

I went somewhat differently, I tried a split wireless keyboard and couldn't go back after that but Bluetooth was flaky, so I designed my own (wired) one.

Best keyboard I've ever used.

> Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said.

I have one I love, bought it like 10 years ago. When I tried to buy a second one this year I had the bad surprise to discover they're not available with French layout anymore.

Anyway, some steps you forgot: the search for the best ergonomic keyboard and key layout.

I just went the pragmatic route and bought a Ducky mechanical, enjoyed the feel and layout. Call it a day.

I would buy a Ducky One 2 in the Skyline colors (reminds me of old Thinkpad keyboards with the blue return key), but they've been out of stock with a Nordic layout for 6 months now.

Yes I had to settle for something other than Skyline as well. I also bought a separate keykap set thinking it wouldn't come with any accent keycaps for WASD, but it did. So I have a lot of spare keycaps.

I don't know, I'd definitely call myself a mech keyboard fan, but not a zealot.

The one I'm typing on right now I've had since 2013 (changing key caps once in a while) and as I'm working from home, my private other one is close by.

I do have a few more (I think 3 others? [0]), but I've not found something to replace my daily driver and I'm not actively searchign. I'm not completely averse to building one at some point but I don't see the need, it might be a fun (expensive) project.

[0]: https://f5n.org/blog/2018/mechanical-keyboards/

I always hated clicky switches and I have no idea why people like them. It's the quickest way to make a $1k keyboard feel as cheap as a clicky ballpoint pen. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of clicky switches, I just think all existing variants get it completely wrong(maybe except one or two Alps switches, but that's another rabbit hole).

And you can pry my 40% split ergo out of my cold, dead hands. I don't care about Topre, just give me nice linear switches and a layout that won't kill my wrists and didn't originate in a prehistoric era when it comes to computers.

I recognized this would be the cycle, so jumped to the end as the first step. Where I'm looping though is on keyboard layouts, and I may end up going for a matrix/split keyboard but I'm holding off.

Yep me too. I skipped blues despite really wanting them.

I got an IQUNIX F96 with reds. It’s been great.

Hah, definitely didn't follow those steps myself, although I can see that being a popular template. I do hope mechanical keyboards become less associated with clicky switches over time. Before I realized the hobby wasn't necessarily dominated by loud clacky sounds, I not only didn't see the appeal, but actively detested the whole idea. +1 for silent linears.

Also, wanted to mention ergonomic layouts - would love for that space to be more mainstream! Some really cool stuff out there; I'm looking forward to getting a 3D printer someday and building some Dactyls.

> +1 for silent linears

I have been extremely impressed with a heavy linear switch (Hako Clear - 75g). It has a bouncy feeling if you learn not to bottom out.

https://kono.store/products/hako-clear-switches-10-ct

I was told you “can’t type” on lineages/reds/Silents.

But I took the plunge anyway as a typer first gamer second.

It’s been great reds are easy to type on. In fact I can only get over 100wpm on my red switch board. I wonder why this myth perpetuates!?

You can type, but the relative lack of tactile feedback means you either have to press the keys harder or risk skipping letters.

> Also never go back to keyboard forums or subreddits.

A.K.A. recovering addict.

Yes. I think it ends up starting with blue, peaking to a dream keyboard which looks different for different people, then finally moving gradually back to keyboards resembling mainstream usage.

Mainstream are less comfortable than split or one-piece ergonomic. Thumb clusters are too convenient to let go.

But switches... I'd love membrane switches from a Thinkpad x220 or T410. Maybe I should buy a dead one just for keyboard, and reuse the keys :)

Wholly agree on the ergonomic factor.

But I also quite like not having to hit the keys because they're stiff. I have a mechanical with Gateron browns which is silent enough for when I'm alone. Whenever I switch back to my MBP (2013 model, so "old" keyboard) I always miss keys because I don't push hard enough on them. This even happens on my work HP ProBook, which I had always considered having very "soft" keys.

But I think the difference between mechanical and "soft dome" is that even though the latter are soft, it's an "on and off" affair. When you start pressing you have a lot of resistance, which all of a sudden disappears, and you can't stop the finger until you hit the bottom.

On my mechanical, it takes me maybe a day or two to get used when I switch back, but then I'm able to type much more softly. Not sure how this affects my typing speed, my feeling is that I type about the same. But it's much more comfortable.

My favorite dome keyboard right now is the MS Sculpt, but I would love a similarly-priced (~€100), similarly-shaped mechanical.

Regarding key softness and feedback.

My current configuration has the softest MX keys I could find (like 30g) for all keys but the 8 keys on the home row where fingers sit at rest.

These home row keys are NovelKey Box tactile keys, something like 60g. They are heavily tactile, but not noisy.

The trick is that I can leave my fingers on these stiffer keys, relax them, and the keys won't press under their weight. I never have to remove my hands from the keyboard, they are always ready to type without staying tense.

I'm just the opposite...Kaihl box navies and Cherry greens..

I learned to touch type on a manual typewriter, so 'soft' switches tend register if my fingers twitch.

I thought about that, but I actually don't have an issue with involuntary key presses on the Gateron browns. Ironically, this does tend to happen on the HP Laptop.

But I think it's related to the "on / off" thing. Usually my hands rest their weight on the wrist-rest, but if I happen to shift the weight towards the fingers, I'll feel the gaterons start to move and have the time to stop. With the laptop, on the other hand, I don't feel anything and when I do, it's too late.

I've experienced the same thing. All my fancy regular mechboards are sitting on the shelf while I daily drive electro-capacitive switches.

Epomaker makes a more affordable but equally as great Topre clone, compatible with MX keycaps: https://epomaker.com/collections/niz - I have one and got nothing but good things to say.

I've gone through the cycle and ended up with Silent Red as well. Though I still sub to r/mk and drool at people's build occasionally.

I have tried all Cherry's and I think brown or clear was the most similar to topre but I keep going back to topre. Not sure if there's something wrong with me or why Cherry's are so popular. Perhaps it's because they're modular whereas topre's aren't?

This sounds like an allegory where novelty wears off.

Commonly referred to as getting old.

I agree. I'm less and less interested in shiny things as I age, and more interesting in getting home safely.

Oddly enough, it was aging that drew me to mechanical keyboards in the first place. I found that as I grew older, my hands started cramping when I typed, and the worse the keyboard, the more quickly my hands turned into gnarled, pain-wracked claws. Laptop keyboards were pretty bad but rubber-dome membrane keyboards -- of the type that just about everybody sold at the time -- were the worst.

Relief only came when I bought a Das Keyboard III with heavenly Cherry Blue switches.

I'm still rocking that board today, nearly 13 years later.

same here - as I got older, I really started to notice the stress typing put on my hands. Even though I use ultra heavy switches now (kailh box navies, cherry greens, etc) I still feel better at the end of the day. And switches don't register everytime my fingers twitch.

> 4. Wondering if Topre or PFU is really better as people said. Then proceed to buy one, and couldn't be happier

No, I hated my HHKB.

As someone who has owned an HHKB at one point, then switched over to a full-size Topre Realforce board, I have to say you should consider giving Topre-based switches another chance, but on a proper Realforce board instead. Unlike the HHKB, Realforce keyboards use a metal plate internally, which seems to make for a more satisfying "thock" if you will. Plus, you can also acquire a Realforce board with varied key weights instead of the uniform 45g weight found on the HHKB.

Are there any QMK-programmable Topre boards? I'm open to trying them out but not if I have to learn and get used to yet another layout for media controls.

Edit: Also, do I still need to lube them? I remember HHKB felt slightly "scratchy" by default. Some people would also say that cherry-likes also needs to be lubed but my Zealios boards feel awesome as-is.

Keyboard Quantizer makes any USB keyboard to support QMK by proxying USB. It won't support all QMK feature/key combination due to the architecture. Probably you can import it from Japan.

https://shop.yushakobo.jp/products/keyboard-quantizer

I went from Cherry MX Blues to Gateron Browns. I'm pretty happy and realised that I actually dislike the click.

That was exactly my experience.

Sold off every keyboard except one with sentimental value. Typing this from a macbook keyboard.

I'm guessing there's also a point where ergonomics take over.

Damn, this pinpointed me exactly.

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