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Comment by endisneigh | Hacker News Reader

Leaving aside for a moment the morality of eating meat and dairy - is there actually any (health) benefit to the heavily (and I mean heavily) processed dairy alternatives compared to just eating regular cheese?

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I'm vegan, and probably not. I've heard that most vegan substitutes are processed heavily so not really more healthy (and probably less healthy than non-vegan options).

However, I do still eat them on occasion. Sometimes after a 30km run, all I think about is burgers so when I get home and sit and have vegan burger with vegan cheese.

It may not be as good as the 'real thing' but it hits the spot :)

After 2 years or so of eating vegetarian I don't think that meat burgers are actually better. First of all, a burger is all about toppings and condiments. And vegetarian patties have come such a long way, texture and flavor wise, it blows my mind. Compared to the boring and ever the same taste of meat it doesn't even come close for me.

Agreed. I've accidentally gotten a few beef burgers since I stopped intentionally eating meat, and at this point I prefer impossible burgers over beef. I still haven't found a sufficiently satisfying ham (always just tastes like bologna) or breakfast sausage (too dry) yet though.

This is also true for buffalo wings. They aren't actually good, they are just a vehicle for buffalo sauce. Fried cauliflower with buffalo sauce is just as good if not better than wings.

Veggie Grill makes some great boneless buffalo wings

Fried cauliflower is so good, thanks for reminding me about that!

My standard workday lunch used to be a chicken salad sandwich with all the toppings. When I replaced that with a mushroom melt I realized I didn't actually care that much about the chicken itself.

A lot of the meat I was consuming was just a matter of treating meat as the default option, not because it was actually adding significant value. That style of eating comprised at least 75%-90% of my meat consumption, and cutting that out turned out to be extremely easy.

The last 10%-25% has been much harder though, especially when my wife and most of my friends like eating meat so much.

Milk has quite a bit of sugar, many of the milk replacements are higher in protein and lower in sugar, or have different macronutrient profiles.

Also, I like the flavor and mouthfeel of things like oatmilk.

I'm also not convinced that milk is not a 'heavily processed' commodity. You are just using a pregnant cow to do a lot of the processing.

Which vegan cheeses have higher protein? In my experience they're all lower. Philadelphia lightest has 11% protein, 2.5% fat, 4.9% carbs. Violife slices are 0% protein, 23% fat (20% saturated) and 20% carbs. Pure trash.

I haven't been able to find cheeses. I was talking about vegan milks.

> Milk has quite a bit of sugar

Sugar content without regard to glycemic index [0] is meaningless. Cow milk contains lactose, which has a very low glycemic index. Most milk replacements use maltose, which has almost double the glycemic load, making them significantly less healthy than actual milk (since they are all basically sugar and canola oil [1]).

[0]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201901082

[1]: https://every.to/almanack/oatly-the-new-coke-821556

Well, there's no cholesterol at least.

Edit: Also keep in mind that cheese is a processed food too. I think it's somewhat subjective whether oil mixed with starch and yeast is more processed than milk coagulated with an enzyme (rennet, usually from mold), strained, and fermented. Processed food isn't inherently unhealthy, but both cheese and vegan cheese definitely are.

Not all vegan cheeses are heavily processed, the cashew based type mentioned in the article tends to be not processed more than a normal cheese would be.

With a cashew cream & agar agar base its not so hard to make a cheese approximation by yourself. Really not a lot of advanced processing needed. It gets harder if you want a more accurate emulation though

It should be noted that cheese is almost all process. It's just what it is. Unprocessed cheese is just milk.

Animal fat and protein cause inflammation, while plant-based fat and protein don't. Dairy contains all sorts of hormones and other stuff (e.g. real estrogen, antibiotics) that people should not consume regularly.

Milk alternatives on the other hand can actually be anti-inflammatory because they contain antioxidants. Whether that still holds true for processed versions of it... probably depends!

The other big risk factor in cheese is saturated fat. I don't know if plant-based cheese is generally healthier in that respect.

Citations needed for all of this?

The first paragraph is just things you’ll hear on NutritionFacts.org with some research papers you can review for yourself. Which was weird to hear in a culture where meat and even dairy are heralded for their supposed nutritional (like protein) superiority. I think his “Evidence Based Weight Loss” video touches on these points all in one place if you are interested. There might be an accompanying article with simpler links to the papers he cites, but too lazy to check on mobile.

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