History of Techno
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I’ve been a huge dance music fan/nerd ever since I was a teenager and techno is my favourite genre, particularly the deeper and more hypnotic varieties.
Check out Donato Dozzy’s 2008 Labyrinth set for an idea of what I mean, it blew my mind at the time (still does) and redefined my musical tastes quite a lot: https://soundcloud.com/user-602354628/sets/dozzy-labyrinth-2...
Would be cool to chat techno more with people from this site (and further afield, but I guess I’m thinking the shared interest in tech is another thing in common), I find sites like Reddit don’t really work for me for whatever reason... would there be any interest in a Discord or whatever for techies who like techno? (lol, sorry). Could be fun to share musical discoveries and maybe lead to other interesting connections.
Best techno party ever is No Way Back during Movement in Detroit. Most likely featuring one of the above.
Of course I still like more semi-mainstream techno stuff, Ben Klock and Dettmann. And then even more mainstream, I love Prydz's polished big progressive and big tech sound.
Also check this wicked set he did recently in Japan, amazing music and really nice visuals cut to Japanese nature: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tUva4XDGBm4
I’m in London so never had the chance to check out the US techno scene, have been to some great nights in the U.K. and Berlin though. Getting a bit old for regular clubbing now but I’ll still go out for the odd special night. I saw No Way Out have a cool looking live stream coming up actually!
And yea, Dettmann, Klock etc are great at what they do, would happily dance to them. And I was really into Pryda in 2007/8 kind of time so I’m with you there too!
Yeah that set is crazy. New track Cylinder into the crazy unreleased 303 one is madness.
How old is too old? I’ve had a reprieve because of covid and I wonder when I go back if I’ll like it as much as I did in 2019.
I’ve def matured in reducing excesses... And I think I’m less of a chin scratching techno elitist.
What spots or events are best in the UK?
Still want to make it to Labyrinth one day too.
In London, good venues are Corsica Studios, Pickle Factory, The Cause, Fold... all pretty low key and underground. There’s good stuff in other cities too but I’m not really familiar with it any more.
Yeah, Labyrinth is the dream!
Good to know, might have to try and hit this summer during a euro-jaunt if they're open. Only thing I've seen so far is Dimensions Festival in croatia. Looks decent, although a bit commercial.
Not sure if a Discord would be helpful as might need a critical mass to not get abandoned... But I would love to have a place with people from HN to chat techno, feel that could take me to music discussions I haven't had yet, the crowd here is quite interesting.
From my personal background, I've always liked dance music, got more into it when I was 17-18 in Brazil when the psytrance/Goa trance raves were huge. Got tired of the trance scene after a couple of years and went to check out house parties, those took me to techno which grappled me very, very hard.
There is something about techno, this feeling of techy tribal music, the psychedelic repetition and playing just with textures and timbres of sounds to make "music", that attracts me in a deep way.
So deep that about 2.5 years ago I decided I would try to learn making electronic music, not only techno but it was definitely the initial goal. Since then I've discovered a whole new universe and language, I didn't ever think I'd be able to learn music, had a lot of preconceptions while growing up thinking that it was an innate talent and/or you needed to start early in life.
Techno has not given me many, many special moments, not only at parties but with the community, with the friends I've made (and some that I keep to this day, more than a decade later) but also a complete new experience trying to create something akin to art, haha.
Hypnus server slants to deep/hypnotic same as their label, also has a private area accessible via sub to label boss Michel's Patreon
A Thousand Details hosts Collective Details, which is a techno community and also a collective net label. We (I produce & do admin for the label) have four releases out with the 5th due very soon. More of a producer focus, and a bit broader techno taste, from industrial to deep to hypnotic to mental, but all on the underground flavour.
/r/hypnotech has a companion server for their reddit, it has shifted its focus more to cataloguing tracks and labels
6AM is an LA based techno event group, I think they sell merch and have a blog as well. They are also working on some integration with their own crypto coin. Music focus here is more on the mainstream / bigroom techno sound.
Richie Hawtin also has a server, but I literally just joined so I don’t know much about that one.
I’m on all of these under the alias neurojacker, stop by and say hi if you’re interested!
Oh, Stoor also has a producer focused discord. I lost the link when I unsubbed but it shouldn't be too hard to find from some googling.
There’s also server hosted by /r/technoproduction, but it was a bit of a hot mess of self promotion.
I’m familiar with Hypnos, some nice music on there!
Bee Mask’s albums are fantastic too. Have been getting really in to ambient lately
I for one did not know it's roots took place back in the 70s and from the black community.
These days when I look at techno artists and their raving followers, its prodimently white. I have since taken active steps to seek out the lesser know black artists to support.
Many modern music fundamentals are origins from the black community and very little is correctly attributed and/or black artists are sidelined.
> origins from the black community
gotta give credit to the engineers who pioneered electronic music synthesis, like Robert Moog, or the Japanese who created Korg synthesizers in the article.
Influences for any technology, project, art, etc come from a large web of sources. Racial gatekeeping and attribution is close-minded.
Let the people enjoy techno without guilt.
And that's OK, there's literally nothing wrong with this. I think there's also a lot of stuff to be said about how there's anecdotes about how the early rave scene had a lot of previously unheard of racial unity going on, stuff like skinhead and rasta gangs or even rival football ultras encountering each other and literally just vibing when they'd be fighting each other before
GP made it seem like whites being a big part of current techno scene is bad.
> The first stuff anyone started calling techno was pretty black
you could say the first stuff anyone started calling electronic music was pretty white. point is, racial attribution for something that has a huge array of influences is silly.
> unheard of racial unity going on
yes, the way it should be.
I don't see that; I don't see any "guilt", using your word. Can you point it out? People have other motives.
My impression is that you brought your own (reactionary?) bias to it, using a reactionary talking point whether it really applies or not. Why bring down someone who is trying to expand their experiences, knowledge, and community, in a world where racism is common and leads to many people being excluded. We should work to include - that's great, creative, positive; there's no reason it needs to be motivated by guilt.
> using a reactionary talking point
???
it's a series about electronic music history.
> its prodimently white. I have since taken active steps to seek out the lesser know black artists to support
I couldn't care less who the specific artist is for techno music i listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV8_eUJ6C1w [ Acid Mix Detroit Chicago - New Dance Show 1989 ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rz2wInkVkRU [ Techno Jam - New Dance Show 1989 ] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aUAqboAvQM [ City of Techno (Detroit) - New Dance Show 1991 ]
Great examples of the racial diversity in the early scene in Detroit. I think this was some public access TV show?
Anyways speaking from living in Latin America the scene here is HUGE for techno and house, I would probably say the numbers here are bigger and more diverse than I've seen for the same scene in North America and balance out the melanation factor quite a lot
I know Colombia is really into it. I went to pretty solid parties in Brazil, at Fabriketa in Sao paulo. Felt fairly similar to the NY scene.
NY would have the big events for the "cool" crowd, big showcases like afterlife and stuff at the Mirage. Then smaller clubs like Nowadays, where you could get an 8 hour Wata Igarashi set etc. Underground one-offs like The Bunker.
Plus it seemed like a lot of Europe's cities have their scene and they focus more on that. Of course Berlin is high quality but like Copenhagen focuses on schacke and stuff. Whereas NY you can get a taste of everything in a year.
Colombia had someone spinning that who was when she was still alive quite the amusement because she changed her name to ladyzunga cyborg and then... this
https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/80/590x/Colombi...
RIP abcdefg hijklmn opqrst uvwxyz
Berlin, Amsterdam, London, etc, each had a larger scene than the entirety of the US combined.
Black people in the US invented basically the three modern music roots:
- Blues/Rock
- Techno
- Rap
The problem is rap had much better marketing in the US, ditto with rhythm and blues in the 90's.
Also, by "rap" I think you mean 'hip-hop', which includes sampling and mixing, especially using turntables.
> Well, blues is the son of jazz music :)
Try some Muddy Waters and John Coltrane, listen, then report back.
With due respect, beyond every form of music being related to every other (just like you are probably a distant relative of mine), they are such different genres that my impression of the comment - which could be completely wrong - is that the commenter has not listed to jazz, blues, or both.
And I’d argue that blues and rock are separate, but that most rock until late 90s was heavily influenced by blues. But that’s all just fun trying to draw lines where there isn’t a clear difference sometimes.
PD: I didn´t put Blues/Rock as separate entities, but two genres where late blues albums could be considered something as proto-rock. And ditto with jazz-swing-blues. It's like a continuum.
Good documentary on the origins of house and techno from 70s disco, to 4 to the floor disco and the coming of the 808, how this moved to house in chicago and some sci fi nerds with a love for kraftwerk in detroit started techno. Then how the UK got involved and these DJs from the US, used to playing to 50-80 people in tiny underground, often gay clubs would come to the UK and play to 10,000 in massive outdoor / warehouse events and rave was born
http://www.bleep43.com/bleep43/2009/10/4/juan-atkins-intervi...
'Alleys of Your Mind'
“The Flow”, here as an original MTV music video,
Kraftwerk's first live recorded performance was in 1970: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWUiLJnEYJI
How many people in the 1970 audience sensed that they were listening to something as significant as what it became?
Here's the book in Spanish https://archive.org/details/latelegrafiarapida.eltritecladoy... and this is a homage to his work in 2013 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZk6WrbOKw
;-)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqz8c4ZP3Wg.
I find live performances quite nostalgic for obvious (pandemic) reasons. Along those same lines, Fatboy Slim at BA i360 in Brighton UK is worth experiencing:
E.g `Eurotrance`:
> "The rank repugnance of the self-fellating culture of DJ worship is at the forefront of this many-headed hydra of rapacious rot. Overbearing anthems, boring breakdowns, and tasteless DJ vanity have combined into one monstrous, obnoxious, pompous, unlistenable Babylonian nega-demon. Who is to blame for unleashing such a hideous beast of seething filth upon our ears?"
>It's important to first explain the horrible template that ruined Trance music. Somehow a musical artform that devoted itself to hypnotic rhythms and spacey soundscapes became, inside of a decade, a mass produced assembly line McProduct for middle class Europeans (pejoratively known as Trancecrackers because they're white. Terribly, tragically, sunblindingly, basic-bitch-ordering-a-pumpkin-spice-latte white) who should have not spent their young adulthood clubbing but rather dying horribly in another continent-engulfing conflict (I mean, come on: Europe is due).
You know, one could answer this with an equally salty comeback, like how ironic it is for an American to think he's in a position to lecture white Europeans in any way about electronic music culture or taste : we built, grew and lived this music revolution for 20 years, while white America was still all about stale rehashes of guitar-based genres*, and black America all about hip-hop. To some extent, they still are.
Then around 2009**, when we had matured this into something commercial enough to be sold to the US public, we exported the cheesiest, bro-ready fringe of it as "EDM" and sure enough, it caught on like wildfire. Frat boys & sorority girls had "never heard anything like this OMG!" :)
But with remarks like the one he makes about war, it's probably sufficient to say that this guy, knowledgeable as he is, sounds like a bit of a bigot and a right d*ck.
*This was the era when Eminem had lines like "nobody listens to techno" (and by "techno" he meant Moby, lol), while in Europe the Berlin Love Parade had a million people in the streets each summer. I was dumbfounded in the late 90s at how many different names the id3 tag format had for country music and Christian genres. It was a complete WTF from a European perspective ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3#Genre_list_in_ID3v1[12]
** David Guetta-produced "I gotta feeling" for the Black Eyed Peas is widely credited to have launched EDM into the US mainstream. Soon after he & Tiesto had their Vegas residencies, EDC & UMF blew up and the rest is history.
Electronic music is and has always been an international phenomenon. Innovations happen due to cross-pollination of styles, not because specifically white Europeans "mature" it.
The Techno that blew up in Europe was initially imported from African Americans. Jungle/DNB was born out of mixing UK Hardcore with Jamaican Reggae/Dancehall/Dub music.
Footwork, Club, Bounce, Industrial, House, Electro, to name a few, are all styles that were prevalent on dancefloors in the US during the time you characterize it as "all about stale rehashes of guitar-based genres". All of these styles are woven into the DNA of the new underground generation. Nobody "owns" electronic music, and the scene is so much better when people stop claiming that anyone does.
I suppose that's one way of saying you have a different perspective from mine.
>Electronic music is and has always been an international phenomenon. Innovations happen due to cross-pollination of styles, not because specifically white Europeans "mature" it. >The Techno that blew up in Europe was initially imported from African Americans. Jungle/DNB was born out of mixing UK Hardcore with Jamaican Reggae/Dancehall/Dub music.
I've addressed most of your points in another comment : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26981256
A lot of the genres that Ishkur despises are every bit as European homegrown as Motown is African-American to the bones.
> Nobody "owns" electronic music, and the scene is so much better when people stop claiming that anyone does.
Sure, but that's a bit like saying Silicon Valley doesn't own the Internet. It's technically true but SV is still (or was until very recently) a mecca, ground zero for all things Internet.
There is such a thing for music genres as well, and a good indicator of that is the extent to which that genre has bubbled up into mainstream pop music charts.
I took issue with your original comment because of the claim that electronic music is basically an ethnically white, European phenomenon. The SV->Europe comparison would be apt here if Europe were indeed _the_ mecca for all electronic music. This is obviously false unless you ignore huge swaths of the history or massively constrain your definition of what constitutes electronic music.
If you use the charts to measure what's happening at the underground/local level of any place, you're never going to get a good picture. Based on the charts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_number-one_ai...) it would appear that Europeans seldom listened to music written by Europeans in the 90s!
That was a diss line about Moby, a "techno" artist who achieved mainstream US popularity around that time. Eminem wasn't trying to accurately depict the state of electronic music in the US, he was being salty.
- 1994 Horses https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ice5Nw6ltfY
- 1995 Desperate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHdu9UwXqGc
- 1992 Drop a Beat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WywzWjZATKA
- 1991 UHF3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21TjeBcA1cI
- 1991 Voodoo Child (Poor in New York Mix) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WywzWjZATKA
Perhaps it will add a little context to note that Eminem, like Techno, is from Detroit.
Spain, 1999:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk
Meanwhile, the US got the shittiest EDM ever in 2010-2011 as something "revolutionary".
You kickstarted the acid house genre, but you let it rot in the dust in the 90's.
We Europeans had a huge underground fanbase since late 80's, and since mid-90's trance has been huge for example in Spain and Germany, up to the point to be broadcasted in the state-backed first TV channel in the mornings.
Europe had an _audience_ for techno, yes but also an audience for some of the cheesiest garbage dance music on the planet.
Don't lecture us -- Detroit and Chicago are the heart and soul of techno & house, even if the artists from there weren't always appreciated at home.
Europe has been exporting its garbage trance and progressive crap since the late 80s. Soul driven techno from African-American artists had a way of being exported over to Europe, absorbed by the locals, and shipped back as soulless amphetamine driven crap.
Electronic music in Europe has always been a huge industry, and some amazing music made... but as a % of product produced/consumed.. only a small amount of it was good (which amounted to a lot of excellent records in an absolute ocean of other junk.)
Back in the day there was an amazing amount of quality underground music coming out of Chicago, New York, Detroit / Windsor, and smaller centres in the midwest, too. Great stuff even from here in Toronto. The west coast was an entirely other story, mostly dominated by "funky breaks" and trance and stuff I didn't like.
Also I can't tell from your tone if the YouTube video you posted is made to be made fun of, or enjoyed? Because to me it's clearly the former. The kind of shit that teenage kids at raves back in the 90s would take meth to and grind their teeth and we'd just gag at.
Yes, we had all that crap here back in the mid-90s. Huge raves, mostly crap. EDM is just what the next generation called it, and I guess maybe it had a broader audience.
I even wish the elitism still existed. I used to go to Pitchfork, Coke Machine Glow and sites of that type to read about music that wasn't getting covered elsewhere. Now it's basically Rolling Stone, but worse because it pretends to be counter culture while devoting endless posts to TSwift or Drake or any number of artists that can be heard on every major radio station.
That is to say -- I've found that while the sheer volume of mass-produced crap has gone up (including but not limited to music criticism), so too has the sheer volume of rare, underground jewels. I don't know if/maybe doubt discovery has been cracked yet.
This. As for discovery, it's never been easier to find things by oneself. Bandcamp (nice place to bootstrap rabbit holes), Spotify artists playlists, Youtube channels, Subreddits...
There are never any cut-aways, or song clips, or on-screen graphics...anything to reduce the monotony. And yet he has a million subs and the comments section does include discussion of the record. It's not very deep, but it does exist.
For me though, it's too boring. I'd read the review if he wrote articles, but definitely would not watch.
Spain, 1999: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH9W5LRcVzk
This was everywhere. Everywhere.
People did their own remixes with computers at home. Everyone and their cat tried to do their first techno/trance song in High School.
When "modern EDM" hit the US we have been listening to Techno/Trance since where, from 1992-1993? There were even official Techno/Trance remixes bought by everyone, too.
You seem to be basing your views on top 40 charts and what was protrayed in media. It's true, techno and electronica only rarely appeared there in the 90s. That's because electronica in the US was entirely centered around clubs and raves. Radio was controlled by a handful of big labels that all had a specific intent to shape the market towards specific genres. So techno in the US never became a "factory" product.
But that doesn't mean we weren't listening to it. I grew up in Kansas in a smaller city. In high school we were going to jungle or trance parties just as often as grunge. All the big box book and music stores had substantial electronica sections. We discovered music at parties, via word of mouth, and by the latter half of the 90s, via the internet.
People have been listening to techno in the US continuously since its inception in Detroit. But we've been listening to a whole lot of other electronica subgrenes as well.
The kind of music in your link has never been popular with electronica fans here. We find it manufactured banal empty trash to be blunt. The closest to that style that's been popular here would be Oakenfold and the like.
You also misunderstand hip hop in one of your comments. It is not just popular with black Americans. It's been popular with Americans of all sorts since its inception. In fact hip hop essentially subsumed pop in the late 90s.
There's been a lot of exchange between hip hop and electronica in the US too, particularly due to both using the 808 a lot. The latest electronica fad, the revival of phonk, is another example. It's a fusion of trap with breakbeat techno. And it's yet another example of how electronica is fundamentally international, as the revival has been driven by russian producers like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smbiKaOAN3Q
I don't really know what you're trying to accomplish with your smugness, but to be blunt all it's doing is making you look both ignorant and prejudiced.
This is just some guys opinions on music, let him talk about them, you don't have to agree.
Not to mention those things were a thing at the time of Lester Bangs or the NME, 50+ years ago (and even in reviewers of classical music) hardly a Pitchfork era phenomenon or invention....
Also to add to this the more I lean to the content creation side and work with artists, the more genres become blurry and irrelevant. Seeing critics and the creator of that history tree obsess over this and create micro genres to try to fit every music and their listener into this is just silly and far removed from how a good composer or producer with eclectic tastes works. Nowadays a mainstream song can be surprisingly creative, while the N-th production in a "good taste approved sub-sub-genre of techno" will have 0 artistic value.
The site is basically one very elaborate opinion piece. Ishkur doesn't like Eurotrance. Deal with it.
We love you too Ishkur! <3 from Holland
Another favorite is Ishkur's "trancecracker" comic, which you can find here: https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245900
I was literally just making the argument with my friends who were going "oh, I wish Tiesto was still playing trance; he turned his back on the trance scene" to which I responded "Tiesto was never a trance DJ, he was a mainstage DJ. He's still a mainstage DJ, and you don't get on the mainstage playing trance anymore".
Also, any musician that wants to get big should know that the fastest way is to add words/lyrics.
Music is such a universal language that it needs to be annotated or something.
Trance ironically enough (including a lot of the stuff Tiesto worked on) is known for having very deep lyrics and that's a good chunk of what people are missing I think when they make the comments like above.
I'd check out Beautiful Things by Andain if you're curious. The lyrics are about a woman who believes she gave up her life and potential to be a traditional wife and is contemplating suicide to end her regret.
Ahem. I think you'll find it's a little bit more complicated than that
Mainstage antics are part of performance. Check out every mainstream genre before EDM. Van Halen Jump is probably my fav example :)
There's plenty of even trance without mainstage antics.
I'm mainly being pithy more than anything else, lol.
The fact that it's originally a Jack Chick tract about how evil Muslims are makes it even better lol.
It is tough being a fan in the US when the kings of DnB all live in the UK. Can’t wait for Fabric to reopen - its time for a visit.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfRh37c5lvivabQPDnLGR...
It's pretty challenging to play along.
Edit: I'll just add that these histories are always subjective and regional. This one seems to focus on "pure" techno, but overlooks artists like Ken Ishii and skips over the first peak techno era with Eon, Lords of Acid, Bizarre Inc, etc.
Edit 2: and no mention of Phuture's Acid Tracks? A crime I say!!
For instance, this narrative always leave out free-style and electro like Hashim (example: 1983, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykK0uEjSsqY), Newcleus, etc. Soulsonic Force (1982: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHQ11l4uiM4) predated Atkins Cybotron project and Atkins even said he didn't see a huge difference between the free-style, electro, and what he was doing.
It also leaves out Italo Disco and the British New Wave movement. Take the intro to 1983's Hypnotic Tango by My Mine for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6EbVwOumlE
They do an obligatory Kraftwerk but the entire berlin school and midera is left out in the cold as well (Tangerine Dream for example. 1975, Ricochet P2 for instance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSNbCNYsA4) along with artists who were giant in their day like Jean Michelle Jarre.
Also what's left out are the other influential Krautrock artists like Manuel Göttsching and his 1981 E2-E4 album. (https://youtu.be/ys0HyevZpQg).
There's also the left-field weird albums that were mighty influential at the time, such as Misa Criolla by Fuego (1981: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Era1x9hRnBQ) There's your "four-on-the-floor" with tape loop sampling. Speaking of children What about the next year, Liaisons Dangereuses - Los Niños Del Parque ... https://youtu.be/a_sAH2QGotE there's your techno
Or take the Bobby Orlando sounding driving beat in Le Jeté - La Cage Aux Folles (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzI2v0RJ8DQ) - a common track of the hot-mix 5. Or Massimo Barsotti's cover of Led Zepplins' Whole Lotta Love (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsEwWSs-t7w)
Or what about Stopps "I'm Hungry" from 1983? https://youtu.be/I26lP56-UeA ... this strange track was played in Chicago house clubs, Belgium pre rave new beat "acid house" parties and the early EBM scene. Pretty expansive one to leave out
And keeping things in the US, they always ignore the west coast, with outfits like Megatone records out of san francisco and gay club music (eg Hi-NRG) and people like Bobby Orlando.
Anyway the history is vast and rich and this article is essentially the same story that's always written. I dunno, I almost feel like this structure misses the boat. I know that's a big claim.
There used to be a great website called Deep House Page which archived loads of Hot Mix 5 mixes, and you could really hear just how diverse that early era of post-disco dance music was, before it even got pigeonholed into "house" or "techno" and the myriad of subgenres that came since. Sadly the page has disappeared, and I'm not sure where to find the mixes now.
Meanwhile, in parallel, people in other countries were experimenting with synthesizers and unconventional composition too. I remember finding mixtapes of an obscure Australian band called Hugo Klang (https://hugoklang.bandcamp.com/) who were doing techno-y stuff with the 303 a few years before Phuture put together their seminal tune.
Without a doubt the big names that everyone remembers as the progenitors were hugely influential. Already in the 90s people were writing articles that started out exactly like this one, so we're already a full generation into the myth. But it's still interesting to go digging and find all the other stuff that surely played a part in influencing all the other people whose stories never got written up.
Seems there was a lot of parallel invention and cross pollination.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPN0gicPJTTUJVhVMzCne... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOfuXwU6GoQ
And I was surprised they mentioned Surgeon and Regis, but not their Downwards Records
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBilbhSIIhgKbRezA7RoO...
IDM has also been a huge love of my life. I'm not sure I could pick a favourite out of techno or IDM though. But Drumcode Radio is certainly good music to run to.
Slam did a rather nice podcast that sat somewhere between techno and experimental. I don't know if their podcast is still going but their RSS feed has certainly stopped :(
Sure, some genres are more predictable than others (hardhouse, for example, is effectively the "painting by numbers" equivalent of EDM) but as a retired DJ who used to mix on 3+ decks and throw in the odd non 4/4 track too (typically 3/4 but I had some more esoteric records too), I can't think of many tracks from many genres that were particularly hard to DJ.
...well there was this one track that was difficult, not because of the phrasing nor time signature, but because the producer decided to fade in the start of the track. Very unhelpful that!
What I've written here also applies to a significant amount of rock and it's various sub-genres too.
As for the "FX friendly on the mixer", that's been technos style since the 90s. It's nothing new and certainly not anything specific to Drumcode. Richie Hawtin even released a compilation album called "Decks, EFX & 909" in 1999 and his style is very different to Adam Beyer's. In the early 00s Misstress Barbara wrote in a cover sleeve on one of her mixes about how her sets were about creating new compositions live using 3 decks, heavy EQing and effects. Her style also differed massively from Drumcode.
Source: retired DJ and producer. Not a household name but played a few gigs in and around London. Mostly techno but with house, electro, breaks, EBM, rock, metal, industrial and pretty much anything else thrown in that had the right vibe to it.
I liked some of it at the time -- I have some of the Code Red Adam Beyer stuff on coloured red vinyl somewhere -- but it's a bit soul-less and monolithic. A very white middle class European straightlaced "thump thump thump" interpretation of the genre.
The stuff from Europe in the late 90s and early 2000s that I loved the most that got left out of the "techno history" was the "No Future" / Scandinavian Records school -- Neil Landstrumm, Cristian Vogel, Dave Tarrida, etc. really wonky wonk stuff, very creative. That's what I was playing back then.
I've got a couple of those records and I can tell you that Adam Beyer and Drumcode still sound like that today, they've really nailed that "far duller than it sounds" sub-genre of techno.
> The stuff from Europe in the late 90s and early 2000s that I loved the most that got left out of the "techno history" was the "No Future" / Scandinavian Records school -- Neil Landstrumm, Cristian Vogel, Dave Tarrida, etc. really wonky wonk stuff, very creative. That's what I was playing back then.
I managed to see Landstrumm play two days before the start of lockdown last March as part of the 20 Years of Don't evening at the Bangface Weekender, how's that for good timing? :)
https://bangface.com/weekender2020/lineup/
I was going out to a lot of squat parties that played it in the 00s when there was tons of it coming out of London from labels like Don't, Yolk, Chancer, Victim and 4x4 Recordings, and also went to Jerome Hill's Uglyfunk night regularly (it's still going in fact but I've not made it there recently). Mark Hawkins was probably my favourite producer followed by Jerome Hill and Michael Forshaw.
I've only managed to see Landstrumm twice, cuz of being on this side of the pond. Once in the early 2000s he DJ'd along with DJ Hell at a local club, and actually he was quite competent on the vinyl (more than Hell was) and he played a lot of Chicago and Detroit classics. It was a good night if I recall.
The other time was actually very recent (2019), someone I know locally knows him personally and brought him over into my local small Ontario city to play live. Small gig, maybe 50 people there. Even got to shake his hand and say hi.
Def. one of my favourite musicians in the genre.
I'm a big fan of Detroit ghetto-tech like DJ Godfather, and have a similar problem of it only existing on the other side of the Atlantic... The weekender I mentioned has had at least one of the top DJs over every other year or so over the last decade which is amazing, because otherwise I've been out to see it played three times in the past two decades, so I feel your pain :)
Adam Beyer's tracks himself and most of the stuff on Drumcode from any era though is totally boring, I agree. And we can also agree the Neil Landstrumm and Cristian Vogel (I'd argue early Villalobos too) are the height of the end of techno history.
Quite possibly I just like this stuff because it reminds me of video game soundtracks from the era.
Here, crack a cool one and breathe this in, for a little while:
There's a party drug contribution that's really instrumental to these movements. I have been thinking of how to do a musical taxonomy by narcotic, but it's hard to do without making everyone sound like a junkie.
New Beat and MDMA, Disco and cocaine, freeform Jazz and heroine, etc. (I'm a big fan of all of these btw, and could likely make you want to "delete my number" talking about them. But pretending like Gino Soccio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhAPoip5YeQ) or Tantra (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqkePY6FKY) or the partiers listening were sober is personally, not very plausible. Sure, I'm sober, but I'm an outlier)
The big theory here is the genres that seem to compactly come and go in a few years, seem to have a high degree of self similarity in releases (take reggae or psytrance for example), and seem to be popular with the party kids might be heavily linked to a particular single or set of narcotics.
Take happy hardcore for example. Thousands of tracks, labels, artists, a huge culture and scene behind it, of well, to be honest, a bunch of teenagers on drugs. Take psychedelic rock and LSD.
Again, this is a really touchy subject but I kinda think drumcore is in that camp. It follows the same chronological and social patterns and seems to fall in the same circles.
I'm not a drug user but I've been to enough parties to know there's certainly a different prevalence in different circles. It's even more difficult because you know, it's all technically illegal so people aren't entirely forthcoming and people don't tend to leave great documentation of illegal substance use around for future historian study.
Maybe a cross comparison with police arrest reports would be as authoritative as we can get? Even that is tough though because in all the hundreds of underground raves I went to in my teens and twenties in california, police arresting people happened at I believe zero. So that sample size is extremely small.
And even then, everything usually gets consumed rather immediately and if they bust a dealer what they're finding are the unsold inventory so even that's not a good metric, the "empty shelves" are the important ones.
Boom-tss, boom-ts, fist pump
Mostly it's me not understanding why so many people are captivated, excited and enthralled by something that sounds so caustic and abrasive.
It's admittedly extremely arrogant for me to say "well they must be on drugs because ahem, I am perfect." but you see parties starting at around midnight and going until 4pm the next day, there's something up with that.
As a result, many people seem to think techno preceded house. But taking the view that Juan Atkins' early 80s work was basically electro and not yet really "techno", it's pretty clear that house was already quite prevalent prior to techno becoming a distinct genre.
And even then, early 80s italo-disco was leagues ahead of house in terms of production quality... a few of my personal favorites:
Charlie - "Spacer Woman" (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZDPCjEoIMI
Klapto - "Mister Game" (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQUVg-HCjEE
Mr Flagio - "Take a Chance" (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDV_dBYp4h0
Fun Fun - "Happy Station" (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb5B1C5PFVo
Meanwhile on the house side we have debatable-first-house-record Jesse Saunders "On and On" (1984) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUeMFG4wjJw. Although my personal favorite under-appreciated proto-house pick would actually be from nyc, Boyd Jarvis "The Music Got Me" (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYfG8tcEl3E.
These articles always mention "Shari Vari" since it's so early (1981) and influential (and still good!) but I always find it odd that they omit so many great tracks from the next few years.
The question here, and most of this stems from the deephousepage reference elsewhere in this thread, is that in the actual 80s tape recordings (I've got an archive of most of them) from say WBMX or WBLS or any contemporary first hand accounts, I don't see these tracks playing prominently.
The more heavily played are things we may find less interesting today such as Pamala Stanley - Coming Out Of Hiding https://youtube.com/watch?v=M6G8dKgsEG0 ... catchy 80s pop, ok. You listen to the old recordings and this song comes up frequently. Also Bobby Orlando's dozen songs that all sound the same come up a lot (the flirts, divine, ronnie griffith, i spies) probably because their similarity in bpm and key made them versatile toys for the 80s dj.
Our perception of the past through the lens that the modern world "as a context" creates defines a narrative that we impose on the events.
I'm interested in I guess two things here. From simplest to hardest
1. What's the perceived reality of who heard/influenced what and why do we tell ourselves that
2. What's the actual reality and where's the evidence?
We have the mighty Memex machine at our fingertips and can immediately call up forgotten songs from far off lands with a few twitches of our fingertips. A Japanese synthesizer album from the 70s, a bollywood orchestration from the 60s and say a funk song from the Bronx in 1971, immediately recognize a through line and claim "aha, these are connected". But how would this fiction be possible in "before the internet" days? Records traveled, ok, Goa beach parties were real, sure. But I want to be careful in trying to remove my "person of the future" context in trying to understand the past
For instance, there's a bunch of Mexican knockoffs of italo disco tracks in the 80s and they could get away with it because Italy and Mexico are far away from each other.
I wrote an article about this 4 years ago, let me quote it:
The 1987 Mexico release Trebol – TI - 71161, produced by J. Brenner of Mannequin, "Boom Bam" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqLt7SwaN90
is a nearly 100% knock-off of the 1986 Italian release SQ 87504, produced by Miki Chieregato and Roberto Turatti, of Paul Lekakis, "Boom Boom": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0ovsnO7Akg
So yeah, that's an example of the context warp.
Now given that, who actually heard and owned what and how it happened is tough. Famous people know how important origin stories are and so they tend to not be great self documentarians. It makes the whole thing tricky especially since not very many people take this as obsessively as I do so the records are continually destroyed and altered
I always have a mixed feeling about music style classifications. It shifts focus from the music to discussions about what style a piece of music is.
Maybe techno originated from rhytmic tribe music. Who knows. Personally I don't care.
That's why these early pre-language explorations are great.
Luckily there's a lot of independent artists these days that are exploring things and refusing to label them with an abstract genre.
We need our modern John Cages to feel empowered. I think it's important.
It's like a better version of Sven Vath's Electric Salsa.
BTW the link for Manuel Göttsching E2-E4 is the wrong one (duplicate of Hyponotic Tango). Here is the right link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys0HyevZpQg
Also if you like that please check out his 1975 release "Inventions for Electric Guitar".
I can't praise this one enough
From the YT description:
"As stated below by Jerry Calliste Jr., this video is not and original version of Hashim - Al Naafiysh (The Soul). Probably it was made for the purposes of one of the UK television programs, like " The Tube", during the early 80's. This recording is one of the first hip hop stories to be seen and published on the British Television. The track "Al Naafiysh (The Soul), was originally used for this video, added by unknown author or crew which worked on the video, as the only thing that was known so far, was Geoff Stern, the director."
One clue to this is that there isn't anyone smoking in the video, and the tube windows have a "no smoking" roundel. The smoking ban on the London Underground came in on the 9th July 1984.
These days sometimes the artist makes a video for an old song. For instance, Earlene Bentley made a video for "Caught In The Act" 23 years after she released it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55KOBCgv7f4
It's not exactly common, but it's interesting to see it what it happens. (her "big" hit btw, in the early 80s, in specifically gay clubs was "The Boys Come To Town" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl0fBil_4dU) ... it has that 80s hard driving orchestration ... pretty nice. The instrumentals are occasionally sampled on this one, about as much as Two Tons o' Fun are. It's always nice to overhear the latest pop song and be like "oh look, there's Barbara Roy's instrumentals from If you want me still living on". (https://youtu.be/lOCMRk8Nex4?t=272 for the uninitiated)
Newcleus is fully sick though. I dunno if people overlook them as a gimmick or what, but the first album is just track after absolute track.
The current narrative still discards it as if big hits like Freeez's IOU and Alexander Robotnick's Problèmes d'amour wasn't influential when that style mutated just a tad a year or two later and called itself techno.
Speaking of Cybotron and electro check out Nitro Delux "Journey to Cybotron Transform" off Cutting Records (1986)
I mean heck, take Polices Synchronicity part 1, https://youtu.be/Si5CSpUCDGY. If someone told me that was how an album by underworld or say sasha started from 1999, I'd believe it, swap the vocals and the physical drums with some synths and it's basically done
Similarly, Underworld of "Born Slippy NUXX" fame in the '90s, are indebted to Kraftwerk (and Brian Eno) as well.
Check out the "Soothing Sounds for Baby" album by Raymond Scott (1962) for an early example of this.
To put Popcorn in comparison to what would be on the techno track at that time, look at Hugo Montenegro's Moog album, released the same year. His MacArthur Park rendition I would argue is a closer direct ancestor to techno being in the pursuit of electronic dance. Direct link https://youtu.be/eNM6187cznE
There's certainly "bridges" between the worlds like the 1979 Automat album https://youtu.be/w7nQHBiv_u0 or the Droids "Star Peace" but synth and techno are kinda like the catholics and eastern orthodox, they split off a long time ago and kinda have their own worlds.
For example, they completely missed out Front 242, Nitzer Ebb. However they at least mention the genre, EBM.
And to be honest: what is techno else than Tallas invention in a record store? Frontpage magazine? So many things left out, but who cares? You either witnessed parts of the 90th or not. ;)
I never understood my parents fondness for Woodstock and how an e guitar could be the center of a "sound revolution". Around 30 years later, I really understand them: Dorian Gray, Loveparade, 303. ;)
Recently there was a cool documentary about Wax Trax records called Industrial Accident. Worth seeing. Interviews with Front 242, Ministry, Revolting Cocks, KMFDM, Thrill Kill Kult, Trent Reznor, Frontline Assembly, etc.
Then I gave up trying to construct it. The reality is it's a bunch of things smashed together like pressing all the buttons at the soda fountain at once. That's what happened.
That's where techno came from as well.
Sometimes the narratives are super clean, like rappers delight for rap (there's pre rappers delight style rap records, but under like a dozen or so) or the amen break and dnb or the configuration of the swing drum kit for swing music or house music proper being "the stuff knuckles plays" in Chicago.
But a few styles are inherently messy with no clean lines. Rock, Disco and Techno are three
Rock is especially super messy, here's Meade Lux Lewis in 1927 for instance, https://youtu.be/tDuLezFRMNU swap the piano with a guitar and you have 50s rock
Isn't the concise answer Philadelphia? :) Partially joking, I know this is an oversimplification.
In any case, this interview with Earl Young from The Trammps, discussing the origin of four-on-the-floor, is pure gold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsf51_a1ceI
The thing that complicates it is four on the floor has lots of predated "almost but ok, not quite exactly" versions. Such as in Brazilian pop, take Participação from 1971: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DP6hRt9xvw ... those percussion aren't far away from late-70s orchestral disco. Almost same BPM.
This drum style kinda came out of everywhere. Here it is in Pakistan also in 1971 for instance, Runa Laila, Rushdi, Shaukat Ali Khan & Munir - We Don´t Care, starts around 1 minute in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9uYjpkTkNo ... that's the 73 columbia release pictured in youtube, not the original 71 odeon one.
Here you can get it in part of this 1971 Phillipines release by Dakila as well during the chorus, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUKDKXSA2-8
Or what about Sophy, from Puerto Rico also in 1971: No Quiero Que Te Vayas ... a very slight change in the drums and you get disco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bhdOpVs9hU ... this one-step-away stuff was common, here's Polish artist Halina Frackowiak - Do końca świata https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgrUUfXesdM or ピンキー グッド・バイ from 1972: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeRtlpY96B0 ... ok that last one was just for fun.
Anyway, I've been trying to compile this narrative for a long time ... all the soda flavors at once smashed together. That's all I can come up with.
Can you please help me understand "rock is super messy"? The traditional narrative is "rock was mostly derived from blues (+ some other influences)" but the counter(?)example you provided is a classic 12 bar blues.
Do you have some messier examples? Or did I miss your point?
Calling it the "definitive history of techno" and then trying to be as concise as possible seems a bit presumptuous to me, though...
That same year, Phuture released Acid Tracks which influenced Hawtin to make Spastik.
https://www.amazon.com/Energy-Flash-Journey-Through-Culture/...
https://www.youtube.com/c/H%C3%96RBERLIN/videos
EDIT: There's craploads of content, a lot of styles, although I will observe that oldschool sounds have continued to come back in a big way in 2020. Rave, electro, acid.
Here's my favourite party set from 2020.
Videos I've come back to way more than once below (most of these are on the harder side of "electro" -- hard techno, hard acid -- but not all)
Lady Starlight (live modular!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb9oVM7CQbI
Tigerhead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpuHmH495us
Tham https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdOfhuYW_OI
The Brvtalist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0qeZ1fpWwU
Dax J and Hector Oaks also need a mention - Hector adding a sparkle of punk to electronic mixes.
No offense intended - divergent musical taste should be celebrated!
What sort of techno do you prefer? The artists I've got are mostly the tougher end of European techno, there's also some Detroit techno, acid techno and hard techno/schranz. You can look at my likes for my favourites...
https://soundcloud.com/spiralx/sets
I've also been into techno since the 90s and it's still my favourite thing in the world :) The combination of relentless kick drum and the constantly changing synths and percussion never fails to draw me in. It manages to sooth my ADHD with the constant heartbeat of the kick drum while the constant progression of everything else serves to keep my attention from wondering off after a few bars.
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1LSjVUxQk1Nrh7kHavZ4uu?si=...
From there on you can follow an guest DJs who you like the style off.
Also when did “techno” become an umbrella term again? I was possessed off enough when “EDM” was redefined as a specific genre (and such a lousy one at that).
I would guess in the '90s, when there was a lot more crossover between electronic music and other genres. Rock and hiphop oriented stuff like the Prodigy and Chemical Brothers were topping the dance charts, and other more conventional techno like Aphex Twin and Underworld were getting decent media coverage as well.
Plus movie soundtracks at the time tended to include a lot of techno. Trainspotting, Pi, Hackers, The Jackal, The Saint....discovered a lot of artists thanks to these.
My comment was in regard to how the GP suggested that techno has since become another umbrella term again now. Or maybe I misunderstood their post?
His style is a bit less minimal, but Boris Brejcha is absolutely sick.
I’ve not knowingly come across Boris before though. Pretty sure I’d have heard some of his records play but looking at his discography I think he might have started making a name for himself around the same time I hung up my own DJ headphones so he’s not a name that’s immediately recognisable for me.
I did recently hook my decks up again but not yet had a chance to play anything.
(IIRC they were on Mixcloud previously, but parted ways for some reason.)
Enjoy the music instead of going around and barking like a mad dog
Nah, it's not experimental at all. It's bland, posh, Tomorrowland-tier tech-house.
I maintain a YouTube playlist called "music to hack by" which is up to over 500 songs now. Basically the criteria are: 1) electronic 2) has a beat (no ambient) 3) few to no vocals, with only one or two exceptions
Techno has a vast range of styles.
disclaimer: I love techno
Not really. Not in the in sense of where the music came from. I'd agree on an enjoyment level it taps into something similar. But the roots of the genre as far as I am aware owe nothing to tribal music.
This one has connected with me recently on that more tribal level!
Good one!
What tribes? Where? When?
Techno is the sound of automation, or as one of the Detroit originators said, 'like James Brown and Kraftwerk stuck in an elevator together'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wPbNf1jhzM&t=2632s
Bedrock For What you Dream off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzHmXaUSL6o
Undeworld Born Slippy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQGOlawi6n0
I went from "techno is boom boom music" to "mind-blown" in one week. Forever.
Thank you Detroit, thank you New York City, and huge thank you Berlin.
WDR Electronic Music Studio was sponsored by the then West German state beginning in the early 1950s. Its charter was basically to promote a musical identity that was a contrast to the GDR's populist state music policy. Kraftwerk's Ralf Hutter listened to the radio broadcasts that came out WDR. Everyone from Karlheinz Stockhausen to Conny Plank worked out of WDR Studios. The following are couple of good articles on WDR Studio:
http://120years.net/wdr-electronic-music-studio-germany-1951...
and
https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2017/08/stockhausen-ph...
This is also a good article on the environment in and around Dusseldorf that birthed some of the artists mentioned in the Beatport article:
Combine that with the fact that Southern California set so many music trends, and literally nothing until about the Nirvana era was even remotely new to me for decades (and of course Nirvana’s music style isn’t particularly new to anyone who listened to the White Album or Iggy Pop, not that it’s not great music). It was all recycled constantly in the dance music world and continues to be to this day.
Techno and hiphop so obviously came out of these roots that I laugh every time someone names a new variant of EDM, which is about twice a week. Prince, Earth, Wind and Fire, and Kool in the Gang didn’t even call themselves R&B groups. They called themselves rock bands, intentionally. Nothing new etc.
That sounds a lot like the Electrifying Mojo, mentioned in the article. Mojo played rock and other stuff too.
Detroit: is a land of wondrous musical invention, just new trends but whole new paradigms over and over, and it's never credited: Motown, of course; Punk (Iggy Pop & the Stooges, MC5 - name earlier punk!); Funkadelic (George Clinton et al); and Techno. At their heart they are creative, artistic, non-commercial (Motown being a big exception to the latter). Try to name other communities that match it, and give Detroit some due.
Techno: I've heard it described (by someone who would know) as the music of black middle class kids in Detroit. Think of what that means: Think of the historical implications, for the next generation after the civil rights era. Think of how rare that image is - today - in our public sphere, 'black middle class kids'. And from this perspective, to great disappointment, the black musical genre that America embraced was hip-hop, which sold itself as the stereotype many whites have of African-Americans: Poverty, violence, crime, lack of education, acting out, etc. That's what people associate with black kids - and that's what they bought - not futuristic techno; everyone in the world knows hip-hop is 'black' music; few outside techno know its origins. It makes me angry to this day. Here's a bit of that history, from the 313 (Detroit area code) techno mailing list:
http://music.hyperreal.org/lists/313/08.html
Through the 1990s, Juan Atkins, Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson and the other techno pioneers, legends and stars elsewhere, were unknown in Detroit beyond the small techno community. Every summer in Hart Plaza downtown, Detroit hosts various weekend festivals, such as a large country music festival. In 2000 a new one was added to the schedule, the Detroit Electronic Music Festival. I can't express the shock, the bewilderment, of local Detroiters when a million people from around the world showed up - to Detroit? For electronic music? Why??? The visitors knew more than the locals. And I was there - my favorite musical memory - for the moment Derrick May, long ignored in his hometown, at last took to the turntables before a massive crowd in Detroit:
In general, all types of electronic music thrived in Europe rather than in the US, house, techno, trans, even dub/regeae/jungle etc. not necessarly just the black middle class music.
What is that based on? What data or experience do you have? It looks to me like your argument is that racial stereotypes are a given truth - a sadly ignorant, uncritical point of view.
Most kids are not middle-class, but the African-American middle class has exploded in size. And middle-class or not, that doesn't make black kids into stereotypes of hip-hop music. I've known and know many (of all classes); they are just people, neighbors, friends, kids. It's bizarre to see people - always people mostly isolated from experience - talking about them like they are anything else.
And where on HN and in most of our lives are African-Americans to speak for themselves, with their own voices, rather than other people talking about them? If any are here and read the parent, would they stick around?
If anyones interested in hearing what modern techno is up to this is a pretty good list: https://www.soundshelter.net/collection/techno-records
this is the book cover: https://monoskop.org/images/9/9f/Toop_David_Ocean_of_Sound_A...
Join The Future: Bleep Techno and the Birth of British Bass Music
Here are some tracks that should be mentioned as influential for techno in general.
Sharpside - I Love Techno (Original Mix) - 2000 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LMJcexnRvE
Moroder - Chase - 1978 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViN2bRGrBx8
...and let's not forget about the ladies Delia Derbyshire - Pot Au Feu - 1968 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpdiMcEeTJA
> Americans were late to the scene
I think you've got to pick one or the other. It became techno in America in a culturally deeply American way. I wish people would embrace the cultural exchange and parallel/convergent evolution at the core of musical evolution instead of holding on to laughably provincial notions of cosmogony.
> it is just strange to ... only make passing reference to its progenitors
Which one is it?
Electronic music didn't begin with Krautrock, it began with avant garde composers pushing limits. Messiaen, Ives, Varése, Cage; all of this in the late 19th century to early 20th century. Krautrock itself is deeply indebted to its own stylistic progenitors in American minimalism, including artists like Terry Riley (as well as Germans like Karl Stockhausen). Assuming you're not trying to make proto-nationalistic strawmans in service of which scene was the "one true" progenitor, it's hard to do anything but to think globally -- otherwise, you'll miss the forest for the trees.
I always felt that part of the joy of Krautrock was in how it was able to rebel against American influence and conservative German mores while dialectically integrating its raw materials. But that's why I would caution against being too territorial about these things. It's why I warn against provinciality. Electronic music developed in parallel across the globe, much like all modern music.
The famous original is still hosted as flash here: http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/
And after more than a decade the update V3: https://music.ishkur.com/
Funny that the Techno scene in Frankfurt is pretty much gone.
(Wait for the narrator)
https://open.spotify.com/track/5O6MFTh1rd9PeN8XEn1yCS?si=jNp...
Pump Up The Volume - A History of House Music - Documentary - 2001 - Channel 4 (UK)
Uffz, Uffz, Uffz!
For example Catalan dance clubs made a huge hit here in 90's/early 00's such as Pont Aeri and Scorpia.
The web gives bad designers too much rope to hang everyone with.
I have smooth scrolling turned off because it makes me impatient. You can't continue reading while everything is moving. Now slow smooth scrolling...
I ended up using the "Reader view" on Safari read it.
I archived it and here's the archive version of it to avoid the scrolling problem:
I can't read it.
If any designers are reading this, please avoid smooth scrolling.
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