Hacker News Reader

Comment by Thomasmack | Hacker News Reader

> Germany will continue slowly declining with whole Europe.

I agree and this is really sad. Thinking of migrating because I plan to have a family and want them to grow up in the best environment. Which countries you guys think will be the best bet?

View on HN

Europe will be a safer option than most others. Everywhere else will be a backwards step in terms of safety and education of your children. The US might seem like a better option for now with higher wages, but with the increase in the gap between rich and poor, how sure are you that your children will be on the rich side of that gap?

If you are a person of colour, even more reason to avoid the US. Not that Europe is perfect, but your chances of being shot by the police drop dramatically.

The highroading by Europeans regarding race never ceases to amaze me. I've never experienced more overt racism than during my limited time in Europe (specifically Germany, Netherlands, and Denmark).

The real difference here is American issues are broadcasted more than European ones are.

real difference here is American issues are more often fatal

Switzerland, maybe Norway, maybe Iceland. Singapore? New Zealand or Australia? You must decide. Nordic countries are too cold for me. Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary. The others too far. I settled down between Munich and Alps. I love nature and still can reach Munich in 40 minutes if needed.

New Zealand and Australia aren't good choices. Rich and poor gap is growing faster than ever, legislation is regressing, housing and living costs are going up - wages are stagnating.

What you just said literally applies to every European(world?) country.

There is no single country here where wages have increased faster than real-estate/cost of living and where the rich aren't getting richer while everyone else is stagnating at best.

It's a side effect of globalization and our current version of capitalism supported by (intentional) poorly designed economic policies that enable this wealth gap to grow ever larger.

How do we fix it?

> Swiss salaries for engineers weren’t that different from my German salary.

Don't you (and your company) pay way more taxes in Germany than in Switzerland?

I've never applied to Munich positions but everything I've read point to a significant gap between Zürich and Munich in software engineering, even before taxes. But maybe that's only valid for software engineering and not so relevant for other engineering fields?

I am an electrical engineer. My offers in Switzerland were ~120k CHF. I didn’t look at Zurich because of the crazy rental prices. My C# colleague got 160k CHF proposal in Zurich , that sounds okayish. But he wasn’t convinced seeing kindergarten cost of 3000 CHF monthly.

I admit I don't know how you end up when you factor in the price of kindergarten, it's significant indeed.

> I didn’t look at Zurich because of the crazy rental prices.

That's also where you have the highest salaries though... With the same reasoning nobody would work in the SV. And as soon as you start looking outside of the city center you quickly find cheaper accommodation.

But I think the main difference is really the taxes.

I disagree, Overall I find that Germany really strikes a good balance. Nice social security net, nice salaries, very low criminality, free school and universities, nice public transport. What else do you need to have a family? Real estate is indeed a bit on the expensive side, but it is the same situation everywhere else.

Yes you feel a decline because of the aging population and low business growth. I agree that a developing country will be more vibrant and you will feel more alive, but you will have to deal with a shit tons of other issues that are non existant in Germany.

I agree with you that these points are currently good. But my question is whether it will look the same in 20 years' time. At the moment, I think that Germany lacks vision and is trying to achieve improvements through bans rather than concrete measures. In the countryside, public transport is still very poorly developed, but on the other hand, services like Uber or other forms of shared taxis are banned or given little support. Don't get me wrong: I am happy with my situation in the last few years, but I fear that future generations will no longer have such a situation due to a lack of vision and wrong measures.

I know a few people who've emigrated to Germany (from Ireland) precisely because it's good for kids (in particular, it has a good childcare situation AIUI; despite generally lower tech sector wages than Ireland people doing this can afford to have more kids due to subsidised childcare and cheaper housing).

I'm inclined to agree with the opinion upthread that Germany is maybe a bit overly negative about itself. :)

Oops, I just moved here and can't see me leaving. One person's rubbish is another person's treasure I guess :)

Reply on news.ycombinator.com